-
It’s an odd definition as so many techno records eg Carl Craig, Jeff Mills etc are based around disco samples.
-
Tracks that Mills sampled that spring to mind are Richie Havens and Michael Jackson
-
It doesn't help that I'm not that interested in either of them as artists relating to Techno.
Robert Hood though, his latest LP Mirror Man is worth a listen as a modern reference for Techno.
To soften the blow about those 2 artists I see them as important second wave Detroit Tech and more musicians than producers, hence their later orchestral efforts. They are definitely important artists in Detroit Techno but after 1990 it was on it's own path or in it's own bubble until Plastikman.
-
So you are writing off Mills Liquid Room dj mix, all of the axis and purpose maker records as not relevant to techno despite all being after 1990? It’s a strong take, especially when the 90s techno was massively influenced by Bicknells Lost parties and Mills playing at them. 90s loop techno was pretty much all derived from Mills’ records, Ruskin said he wanted to be the British Jeff Mills, Sim’s Killabite and much of his other output was clearly inspired by him too.
-
The other thing worth considering is Techno was one of the early edm genres that pretty much died after its initial impact while the many heads of edm genres started to emerge.
After Trance arrived there was very little of what we would now call Techno getting promoted or played and a lot of Techno fans had turned to making their own tracks in Reason etc.
This was part of my initial statement that it was easier to distinguish the difference between Electro and Techno in the early days. Carl Cox was playing Electro and some Techno at the Zapp Club on Brighton beach in '89/'90, Thursday nights with his girlfriend handing out flyers for his other gigs . Friday and Saturday nights were house and some acid house. Oakenfold was playing Acid House/House and some Disco/Pop at Heaven on a Monday night for Land of Oz.
After '90 raves started picking up around the South East and then the rest of the country. Most people were more interested in the pills than the genre of edm but it very quickly went Spiral Tribe/Traveller/Dog on a Rope trance and psy-trance. If you were a fan of Underground Resistance you would be waiting a long while to hear it get played at most club nights/raves. The background in the club scene was the countrywide battle for the right to profit from pills, clubs were failing because they had lost their alcohol income. The Hacienda in Manchester was pretty much the front line for this in '89/'90 but bear in mind Acid House had been on the front page of the Sun in '88.
All of which is just memory lane for me and doesn't add to the definition of Techno except to point out that pretty much no one cared about Detroit Tech in the UK in '88-'91. What got played were tunes that would fit the mood which was largely trending towards trance and rave culture via Techno and Acid and very few people had a clue what they were hearing anyway.
-
Problem being was I was/am a huge UR fan and found a lot of that period ghastly on a musical front! I was lucky to have parties like House Of God to go to that catered to my rather purist take on techno -though it often ended with Paul Damage playing gabber!
-
Mills is an artist I respect and have respect for his fans but he's never really spoken to me and that's probably because I'm an Acid House fan first and foremost. I own a 909/808 and 303, not replicas or software but the actual items and I built one of the first 250 XoX boxes from parts, number 236 from the brass dog tag that came with it.
Like I said though, I have Robert Hoods latest LP and he was co-founder of Underground Resistance with Jeff Mills so maybe I'm just in a slightly different thread.
-
Likewise, the scene was dead to me by the time most of the country discovered it and I was personally badly burnt out by '91. The early days were fun, some great memories.
I've still got a lot of time for Carl Cox and enjoy checking out his Beatport lists. I get a bit of Acid from the underground too!
-
You must have heard how those samples were used. I'm not sure sampling a single note or vocal stab kinda thing counts as "sampling disco".
When I think of sampling disco I think of filtered disco loops like Beltram did or maybe something like Slam's Clap Your Hands w/ the Stevie Wonder vocal. I need to find better examples but that's all I can think of right now. Ben Sims plays a lot of newer stuff with filtered disco loops but no idea of individual tracks.
-
But that to me is the interesting bit. They were sampling disco but flipping the samples differently.
A bit like the Paperclip People’s The Climax with the first choice and Lynn Collins bites. The latter was used for hip hop, hip house but in Carl’s hands the sample makes a techno track.
Or the First Choice sample in Bug in the Bassbin which for me is such a good example of a techno track, looking backward to make something so weird and futuristic and then got played at the wrong speed as a proto jungle track.
Or the Gaz sample used in Chicken Noodle Soup.
To be fair it was only years later when hanging out with Phil Asher and Patrick Forge when they schooled me at the Notting Hill Arts Club that I realised how much of Carl’s music was sample based. It became apparent where his source material was. Also as he is probably my favourite early to mid 90s techno producer I find the notion of techno not sampling disco very at odds with my knowledge and experience of techno.
Though famously the reason why Derrick May set up Fragile records was he felt Carls use of sampling made his music unsuitable for Transmat.
-
Generally Detroit Tech is closer to Electro in terms of the sampled elements and use of funk grooves. The reference to Disco and House should be pretty obvious, clearly you can use Disco samples in Techno that don't make it house but you wouldn't be using the groove of disco in Techno as that would make it sound like house.
In any case UR came too late to be origins of Techno. They may well have defined Techno at a time when ground was being broken in Trance or Big Beat which is fine but not that useful if you're discussing the difference between Electro and Techno when Techno emerged.
Gave Climax a listen and I wouldn't personally consider that Techno. Not that I have anything against it, just wouldn't mix with what I consider Techno.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arcN5z1ljYE
This would though, just about.
-
I do still see Acid as a form of Techno rather than House as it has no sampled disco elements
This was what I found contentious as it’s clear to me that there are many disco samples in the techno canon. It appears you are now saying not the groove of disco which is quite different.
Also for me good music is good music and much of it is part of a continuous evolution and gradual change with occasional rare paradigm shifts. I tend to prefer artists and DJs who focus on good music rather than a particular genre be it Francois Kevorkian, Carl Craig, 4 Hero or Helmut Geier.
-
I tend to prefer artists and DJs who focus on good music rather than a particular genre
Yes, totally agree. However this is a discussion about what is Techno in the Techno thread! Mainly at the moment discussing Techno vs Electro origins or during the occasional rare paradigm shift if you prefer, which happened prior to the existence of UR.
Sampled disco elements ≠ samples of disco records. I think other people got that. There's plenty of great genre straddling tunes though, just not that useful to discuss them in this context.
I hear you about your understanding and love of Techno. To me it's Detroit Tech and not Techno and they are different but that's just me.
-
Just one more thing about '90s Techno. I think it could be a massive discussion but it's partly the reason why I originally said, "It was easier to identify the differences between Electro and Techno in the early days" ('80s). In the '90s so many versions of Techno started to develop and it's increased year on year ever since.
I'd happily put together a group think playlist of '90s Techno that could work under the Techno label without splitting into Ambient, Electro, Minimal, Hardcore, Industrial, Deep, Detroit or Tech House etc.
In a world where Acid House is not Techno then Detroit Techno is not Techno either. It's still fine if they are both Techno but it's going to be a mighty big genre.
-
Was that the one written by Jonas?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aATZqmI8QLc&list=LL&index=48
&v=aATZqmI8QLcBanger
%~}
dancing james
Airhead
hippy
EB
Nbenja3-
Post a reply
About
Techno
Posted by
@TheorySwine
If you're looking around '87-'88 there are a couple of tracks that stood out :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQZndywOR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJxJxr9RlKM