Epic WTF

Plenty of things are reprehensible but also legal. Infidelity for example.

what is the difference between using an anonymous donor and the doctor himself providing it?

Trust violated, exploitation. For would-be parents to go to a fertility clinic is a huge psychological thing for them - one or both of those people will be having to struggle with feelings of inadequacy. Children who then discover their biological father is a) not their familial father and b) a sperm donor) are also going to face an emotionally and psychologically difficult adjustment. In the centre of all this, you need to be able to trust in the doctors running the process. You need to be able to trust in their integrity and discretion.

It would be bad enough for the parent or child to discover Cline had done this to them. To then discover that his abuse of you was just one in a whole freakish, industrial-scale sequence of abuse... bad enough for the parents, worse for the children who are going to feel even more that they are freaks.

It reduces to the same value judgment on his actions being wrong / an “abuse”.

edit

At least in the UK, "it is a criminal offence for treatments that fall under HFEA law to be carried out in a non-licenced clinic"
from a HFEA statement in relation to this story from Belfast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60945418. I assume in this case the dude was appropriately licensed?

Plus according to wiki, in this case:

"Because there was no law concerning the practice in Indiana, he was charged with obstruction of justice, false advertising, and immoral conduct, and lost his license to practice medicine. The first law in the United States came into effect in 2019 in the State of Indiana as a result of this case"

The Washington Post article goes into more detail: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/fertility-fraud-people-conceived-through-errors-misdeeds-in-the-industry-are-pressing-for-justice/2018/11/22/02550ab0-c81d-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html

As I understand it the parents weren't looking for donation, just IVF and the male donation provided wasn't used, the doctor substituted his own.

So its like going to get your own frozen eggs implanted, but he puts his own in instead.

The Guardian article isn't clear about this, but in fact a lot of these were cases where the parents had requested donor sperm. Jacoba Ballard, one of the main people quoted in the Guardian article, had been told she was conceived through donor inseminiation when she was 10.

Ah OK, I stand corrected!

It's hard to imagine whether her route to discovering the truth is better or worse than those who didn't even know they were conceived through artificial insemination (the majority, because of Cline's advice to the parents). On the one hand, she didn't get the whole shock all at once and had some years of adjustment in between the two revelations; on the other, those psychological adjustments were based on false information and were at least shaken, if not destroyed.

Probably not the best thread to post this, but wow: https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/exposed-­by-a-strava-kom-the-many-lives-of-a-fake­-pro-cyclist/

What an extraordinary yarn

That's a really fucked up thing for you to say, frankly. Putting abuse in quotation marks there, that's fucked up

Genuinely sorry if it came across that way - see my opening comment about nuance on text media. The quotation marks were meant to point out that it was a quote rather than imply that there was no issue with what he did.

Ah, understood, hackles lowered.

https://twitter.com/Helen_Barnard/status/1524088706499551232

Back on the big C chat, this is another example:

https://microcosm.app/out/cHm9i

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I'm so not going to google bowelbabe. Which aspect of the cancer conversation is she an example of? Fakery? Terminal taking a while?

Terminal taking a while.

This from what I read.

Am sorry if I offended or triggered anyone.

Understand that other experiences are different.

The two that I mentioned have been told they have terminal cancer yet don't say what cancer it is and what they are doing to have been alive for so long.

All cancer people I have been close to, talk about the treatments that they are going on things they are doing.

Now all people need to be doing the poo on a piece of paper from 40 on as colon cancer is easily cureable if caught early enough. Same as prostate cancer in men.

Woman and (to a point men) please examine your breast and anything untoward go see a doctor ASAP. Men check your balls and prostate issues.

doing the poo on a piece of paper

And what are you supposed to do with it when you've got it?

Draw round it.

Fold it neatly into an envelope and post it to your GP

Instagram clout

Fold it neatly into an envelope and post it to your MP

.

Fold it neatly into an envelope and post it to your PM

.

What about it stresses you? Excel is the best of the MS Office products, the least overloaded with useless extra features. The data flows you can set up in spreadsheets are the closest most people will ever get to functional programming (don't say that too loudly, though; it'll put some idiots off)

Late to this Excel chat but maybe DJ should buy this for his other half:

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It's silver and blue, right?

Fold it neatly into an envelope and post it to your GP

They prefer you to scan it and email it over these days

only if you highlight the fields