Epic WTF

Am just talking here, trying not to be an arse, but seems people I know haven't been so lucky that the cancer was caught early.

@rhb My condolences
@Dibble That is good to hear.

Am probably being bitter and jealous as when people I know and love have been given the terminal diagnosis usually means the end is near.

It's entirely natural to be bitter about it. Two of my friends died of it in their forties. (I had it, was given a 40% chance of survival, and I'm fine.) Cancer outcomes in the UK have fallen well behind many of our European neighbours. They've spent the money on the latest drugs and machines, but we haven't. To catch up we'd need a big increase in taxation.

An unfortunate side-effect of expanding screening is that a small number of people find out that they have a pretty much fixed date of death. If I had 8 years to live I'm not sure I'd want to know until I had about 3 to go?

Cancer outcomes in the UK have fallen well behind many of our European neighbours. They've spent the money on the latest drugs and machines, but we haven't

I think the trend is the opposite - the UK used to be a long way behind and now is just quite a long way behind. Like lots of health trends there was pretty good progress / convergence until the early-2010s which then stalled... draw your own conclusions as to why

Well this is just disrespectful to those of us who have actually served in elite Excel units.

Sometimes at night I can still hear the sound of cocaine-fuelled M&A juniors spinning on their chairs at 2am in South Colonnade while their model reruns on a blade server dedicated to this one workbook...

Thanks, she got an amazing send off as there'd been so long to plan it. It was a beautiful occasion, very different to my experiences of other 'normal' funerals.

When we were still at school same friends Mum was in hospital dying of an incurable cancer and going through trial treatments, early 1990's. She survived/recovered and was there at her Daughter in Laws funeral.

My best friend died of cancer almost 4 years ago and I found out from his parents that he had signed a document saying he didn't want to know any details once he got the diagnosis. Apparently it's quite common in late stage cancer diagnosis.

His parents knew from the start exactly how long the doctors gave him though, which makes my stomach shrink just thinking about. It must have been absolute hell knowing pretty much exactly when their son would die and yet have to hide it from him.

elite Excel units

Needs Navy SEAL copypasta but for INDEX / MATCH
"personally eliminated over 50 confirmed #!REF errors" etc

Turning this thread into an Excel users self-help group has been really fun - NOT.

This is wild:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/may/10/our-father-netflix-every-time-i-find-a-new-sibling-i-feel-im-ruining-their-life

Fucking hell.

😬

“We’re at the mercy of finding siblings just by, you know, hoping somebody wants to find out how Italian they are,” Jourdan says. “That’s the only way they’re finding out. What happens is, every holiday, there’ll be an influx of new siblings because everyone gets their Christmas DNA test. They’re excited to take it, and then in February they’re heartbroken.”

This was the bit that stood out for me:

“Of course, this should not be legal,” says Jourdan, palpably angry about a situation that has revealed 44 other doctors who have used their own sperm to inseminate patients – all of which has come to light since the trailer dropped."

It's going to be hard to make this comment with sufficient nuance / sensitivity on a text medium, but what is the difference between using an anonymous donor and the doctor himself providing it? Just the ick factor?

Clearly the lack of disclosure is wrong, but that is a slightly separate issue (that doctors probably didn't think would ever come to light when doing this in the 70s and 80s).

Power imbalance/God complex/it's just very fucked up?!

Breach of contract. A civil thing not criminal.

Presumably as the Dr gave them information about the donor that matched what the patients sought rather than described himself, and so promised sperm that want delivered - whilst delivering his own.

I think I am with you in that this is quite clearly (i) unethical and (ii) breach of contract...
Punishment is being struck off and sued for damages but does it deserve prison time?

it's just very fucked up

Yeah this is what I mean by "ick factor". I'm not sure what you mean by "power imbalance" without a bit more context.

It's also that if it's all presumably done in the same area, the chance of siblings hooking up is far, far higher. If all from separate donors that's obviously not an issue.

Well the doctor was in a position of responsibility/power in relation to the people looking to get pregnant, by virtue of being the person who might facilitate a pregnancy, and he chose to abuse that power by using his own sperm instead of Donor X's, and crucially hiding that information from them. The receiving parents had no power (could not have any) in this exchange, and while I don't know what might be legal and what might not, it's certainly questionable from a moral perspective at the very least.

Is what I was trying to get at...

That is a VERY good point

Maybe. I don’t think setting it within the “power structure” framework really adds anything to the analysis here. It reduces to the same value judgment on his actions being wrong / an “abuse”.

It's definitely a bit rapey though, in that rape isn't really about sex it's about power over other people.

but what is the difference between using an anonymous donor and the doctor himself providing it

As I understand it the parents weren't looking for donation, just IVF and the male donation provided wasn't used, the doctor substituted his own.

So its like going to get your own frozen eggs implanted, but he puts his own in instead.

It's full of those jaw-droppers. Right before that was

Before he was a fertility doctor, Cline was a gynaecologist...