Motorcycle and Scooter appreciation

I would go MT09 (or even 07) over an MT10. The 10 is heavy and way too overpowered for even an intermediate rider to have fun on UK roads.

Personally, I think something like a 8-900 naked triple is perfect as a weekend lanes bike.

A lot to talk about but none of the words that define your intentions matter when you stop thinking for 90 seconds and something gets the better of you.

It happens in skiing also. I'm a good skier and know that similar mindset need application. Can easily get in trouble.

Will look into the 9

It’s about the way you read it though. I’d have thought my use of the vanishing point (for example) is quite good. However, after discussing the difference in where you apex for where your turning point and exit point is, every corner this past week I have been reassessing where I am positioned.

Like I said tl:dr, advanced training - yes. 100%.

Well if you're in a turn and can't let up on the turn safely and can't get any farther into it, you're at the limit and best not be surprised. That's how people get hurt skiing. It's easy to not realize you are out of options until you need another option. .

Anyway thanks all. I'm going to dial back the bikes I'm looking at.

Well if you're in a turn and can't let up on the turn safely and can't get any farther into it, you're at the limit and best not be surprised.

A lot of the way you’re explaining yourself sounds like you intend on riding at 100% or even 90% effort on the road.

There are very few times that can ever be justified. Literally.

Sub-litre (as others say maybe 120hp) and something you can thrash and have fun but at maybe 80% bike power and rider effort.

Having gone from the Blackbird to the F3, dropping >160hp down to barely 90-odd, I was grinning the entire 160 miles today. I also got to use all the gears and all the rev range, but on overtakes there was more than enough left that I didn’t use.

I actually don't have those intentions. I mostly talking about it to illustrate an awareness.

But that makes a lot of sense what you're saying calling me out in that regard. Totally get that.

And again to be completely clear because I respect the input of everybody on this thread. I have no intention of pushing anything.

I am not a hot head. Have too much on the line.

Look at the 600 super sport category, beyond that on the road is pretty pointless. The MT/Street Triple ergonomics are all a bit more upright.

Pick a bike for the way the frame feels. Power figures and electronics are not as important as weight distribution and the way you fit the bike. Best to have a bike where you can ride out a tank slapper or muscle it deeper into a corner if that's what keeps you on the road.

Same thing you are saying about corners, you need to be inside the ergonomic envelope for the bike. So your own weight, height and strength determine the kind of bike you'll be able to really enjoy.

Maybe I look for a bike that isn't fast at all. The equivalent a BMW 2002. Enjoyable for totally different reasons.

The difference with motorbikes is that you do it much faster and often use the whole road, getting close to the verge on the 'wrong' side of the road. Calculating the best line while taking all hazards into account at high speeds is a new skill.

Or you can just slow down, nothing wrong with that. But as you get more confident your speed may well increase. You could be one of the few bikers who doesn't break the speed limit. But you seem like one of the ones who will.

The electronic aids don't have a role to play in a high proportion of bad crashes. If there's a smidsy, ABS doesn't help if you freeze in terror. This is very common. If you pick the wrong line and suddenly realise you won't make the corner, the aids don't stop you panicking or allow you to lean past the point of no return.

Study other people's crashes on youtube and try to work out how the riders could have prevented them, especially when a car driver has made an obvious mistake. Bikers always say that drivers are trying to kill them and that drivers are to blame for this and that and the other, as if staying alive is a lottery or not in your hands. But you make your own luck. You have to factor others' possible mistakes into your riding. If you don't, you're also guilty of making a mistake. The driver is hardly ever the one who gets hurt, so if you want to live you need to be the responsible one who plans with everybody's mistakes in mind.

You don't know yet if you'll prefer twins, v twins, inline 4, v4 etc. They all have different qualities and most riders settle on a favourite or have a few bikes. Some have a few with similar engines.

The power delivery is a huge part of the fun for me. Especially the noise, it's like playing a musical instrument for me.

Don't look for a bike because you're an excellent rider and want to find some limits and then try commuting on it though!

There are some aweful IAM groups, but think about rospa training. Both are different tho.

A 250 or a 400 is more than enough for the roads. They're more rewarding because you can use all the revs and gears, and they're more nimble in corners. Easier to park, cheaper to run...so many advantages. But not comfy on the motorway or a long journey, and not great for luggage and passengers.

This is partly about rider aids:

So literally the second roundabout before home, straight over, I was very very hot into it. Now, there may have been a margin of error on what the speedo says and what the speed limit might be…

The car entering the roundabout on my right was at that awkward “will they won’t they” pace. I wasn’t going hard enough to make it worth gunning and hoping. I closed throttle as soon as they were in sight, then full progressive brakes.

Problem was that they were positioned left to turn left, slowing, but no indicator. Okay, so no indicator means probably straight over? Nope.

Full U-turn around the roundabout and back where they came from. At walking pace.

In real terms (because they were lost) their hesitant speed meant I was fully using all of the brakes. Coming from fast A roads back into town traffic, I went back into town mode and didn’t want to second-guess anyone else by gunning it and chancing a t-bone from my left.

Anyway. As I was full progressive brakes I could feel that I wasn’t 100% on the front so I wouldn’t lock it, and I was adding rear as you would. I stopped literally on the line of the junction, and their pace around the roundabout was so slow, that I actually had to wait for a while for them to clear and go all the way round - I could see the person’s look of confusion talking to her passenger like “okay so where am I supposed to go?”

Hot-hot tyres (albeit old), relatively light bike, not toooooo fast (slow enough to stop, fast enough to be at fault). I was upright but braking heavy. Still felt the back end shimmy for the last few feet, or maybe yard or two.

Modern bike, abs would have kicked in, and I’d expect the stopping distance would be the same but no skid. However, it still relies on the rider braking early enough. Which relies on the rider paying attention. Which a lot of riders don’t.

I agree with everything already said about smaller capacity, and crucially lighter bikes. But to play devil's advocate make sure you find the bike exciting if it's for weekend kicks.

And they position themselves behind the middle of the car, instead of to one side. They don't give themselves an escape route, or a decent chance of using the brakes. Better to go in the ditch or lose your mirrors than to enter the car by way of its back window.

Exciting under 100mph.

Sounds daft even typing it, but I think that the way of the world now means that is the statement. Top speed is irrelevant except for safe margin for overtakes. Gotta be fun while not losing your license.

The DR350 is mega fun at any speed, not exactly exciting until you’re on mud. But mega fun and tops out barely over 80mph. Hooligan bike, shit on roads faster than 50, but you can embarrass most people even on knobblies.

F3, also hooligan; easy to scream it to redline off the traffic lights and in seconds I’m decelerating from 125 indicated. Crucially: exciting to ride at legal speeds on the road, enough leftover power to overtake, brakes work (more or less).

I bet the modern CBR’s are mega fun.

Agreed. And as the advanced coach was trying to illustrate, position three isn’t always the safest or greatest visibility. For example left hand bends, you look down the left of the vehicle in front.

Always use the whole lane and keep changing position when necessary.

What's position three?

I feel it's s never the car's drivers fault.

Not sarcasm?

Position one - left - near kerb, passenger tail light.
Position two - middle - between tail lights.
Position three - right - “proud” in line with driver’s tail light.

Flip the numbers in Europe/USA etc.

Not sarcasm, never seen these terms. Where are they from?