I want to get a dog but I have to work, how does everyone on broadway market do it ?

I meet far more growling, snappy, aggressive and unfriendly small and furry dogs that I do bull or guardian breeds

It's a risk assessment though, an unfriendly, small, furry dog isn't capable of ripping off your arms

I'm not aware of BSL working anywhere

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2012/06/29/injuryprev-2012-040389.full.pdf+html
" A total of 16 urban and rural jurisdictions with pit-bull bans were identified. At the provincial level, there was a significant reduction in DBIH (dog-bite injury hospitalisations) rates from the pre-BSL to post-BSL period"

People who want status dogs for the wrong reasons will find a way to have them, and move on to another breed if necessary.

Sure, a bad owner can make any dog bad but there's a reason they're choosing those specific breeds right now, because they have the highest potential for damage.

This is what worries me about "exotic" breeds like the XL Bully - bred for looks with very little understanding of temperament, sold to vain people with £5K to spare and no experience of owning and looking after a dog

For what it's worth the American Bully is literally a Pitbull, the United Kennel Club even allows you to cross register as either. https://www.ukcdogs.com/docs/registration-forms/breed-transfer-american-bully.pdf
And I'd agree that it's bad when people don't know what they're getting or how to properly look after it and that's actually the crux of the whole issue in my mind. The longer people keep denying bull terrier breeds past the longer they'll be walking around unaware they're got a hand grenade on the end of their lead.

all data on dog bites and attacks is unreliable, not least because most people are incapable of identifying a pit bull properly

This is such a terrible argument that came out of one study from a shelter in the USA. For one they specifically chose really obscure, highly mixed dogs for the study. And in fact it works against the "pitbulls don't exist" crowd because it shows people would not chalk an attack up to one if they couldn't recognise it, a lot of the results were people not guessing pitbull mix when it was and a lot of bull mixes in shelters in the USA are labeled as Labrador mix or just "mixed breed". Just google any shelter's website.

I would bet a lot of money that a significant proportion of those 284 were not pits

This is another part of the cognitive dissonence. People love to say Pitbulls don't really exist because they aren't one specific breed but 4 different ones then also say "that dog wasn't a pit when it doesn't fit their one narrow criteria of what one is despite looking and acting like one.

The fact that I came close to losing a pup that is not one of the four breeds included in the DDA

I appreciate that losing your pup would be awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, however I'm just going to say it. You got a puppy from someone who's apparently a breeder yet had an unexpected litter, charged you very little money for it, had one returned for being aggressive, and has unknown provinence and you're not at all interested to know if it may have part of a banned or dangerous breed in it.

Just horrible to imagine, i actually had a proper shook moment thinking about this and i'm really relieved for you guys it's all worked out.

and you're not at all interested to know if it may have part of a banned or dangerous breed in it.

Maybe i'm getting lost in all this but are you saying that regardless of the DDA check verifying the dog as safe, the owner should still take a DNA test to check if there are any banned or dangerous breeds in the dogs DNA? Are you also saying that it's important for an owner to know how much of a risk there dog might be (due to breed) regardless of the dogs temperament? If a dog is well behaved and has shown no signs of aggression over an extended period do you think an experienced owner should put in new safety measures (muzzle) if they found out it had a dangerous/banned breed in them? Genuine questions, not here to argue.

We've been considering a DNA test to see if there's any red flags but the advice from our animal behaviourist is that our dogs behaviour is not breed specific but rather a result of her poor treatment and focusing on the breed would not be helpful at this point.

And can someone post a pick of a fluffy dog to lighten the mood!

The DDA check is just measuring the dog and seeing if it fits the mould they have of what a pitbull / dogo argentina etc look like, it's not exactly a holistic investigation in to the genetic make up of the animal.
In this particular case you've got a dog which is from a breed already very closely related to the pitbull from unknown parentage, if given the chance wouldn't you want to know if you've potentially got more than you bargained for?

If a dog is well behaved and has shown no signs of aggression over an extended period do you think an experienced owner should put in new safety measures (muzzle) if they found out it had a dangerous/banned breed in them?

In a word yes. Pitbulls themselves are known for "snapping" when they reach maturity, there's many, many news articles about the family pet that they'd raised since a puppy one day just deciding to attack it's owner or other family pets after 3+ years. The problem with pitbulls and fighting dogs is they don't growl or show signs of aggression to warn you off, they just attack and don't stop until the thing is dead. If you have a dog that comes from a line of fighting dogs you need to be hyper aware and not put them in a situation where they can do harm.

4 years old, killed owner

4 years old

Here's a little bonus article, we all know dogs that look like those in the picture. Call me when someone posts a similar article and the photo is of someone leading away a Cockerpoo.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/10/norwood-park-blind-family-dog-dies-after-being-mauled-by-pit-bulls-14748264/

Just to add I think the same goes for owning dogs like Chow Chows or Akitas, the difference is the owners of those don't seem to deny their temperament like owners of bull terrier breeds do.

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Some vicious dogs, earlier.

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Had a shock when this one caught a scent this morning while off lead and in full auto pilot went straight into attack mode... I could tell it was coming immediately from his body language but before I could act he was viciously pouncing onto a smelly pile of fox shit and violently hitting it with his neck until nothing was left but the remains splattered throughout his fur as i waddled over fentoning like crazy.

Glad to hear all is well with Luna though markyboy.

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Horrible stressful experience. Great to hear Luna is well.

As you say the guy that returned the pup sounds like a complete chancer.

Daisy is now 1 and we are living in Scotland. Pic of my vicious status dog...

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As it's getting Autumnal here in NZ, and since daylight savings I have been dog walking before work in the dark with a head torch (and putting my cateye rear light on Phoebe's collar).

I still shit my pants in the woods in the dark at times, particularly when we get surprised by a possum on the tracks.

Also as we come back through the field on the way back to the car, we always seem to find a forgotten ball left there from the night before somehow.

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or the unspeakable horror that stalks you from the shadows leaves the balls there for you to play with much like we give our pets toys.

ugh my overactive imagination probably can't walk in the dark anymore.

Maybe this is the nightcrawler

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I know multiple Pits, they're pretty mellow. All are people friendly, most are dog friendly. If dangerous breeds were classified based on a risk assessment, then a bundle of larger protective breeds (and some smaller ones!) should be in there, GSDs and Malinois in particular. I volunteered for a couple of years at a GSD rescue and a solid proportion of the dogs in there were given up because of issues with people (let alone other dogs.) I don't pet any of those protective breeds without asking the owner (including ACDs!)

If you've seen a Jack Russell catch a rat, or a Greyhound a cat, the idea that Pits are somehow more murderously unstable seems a bit nuts.

Guess which of these two is the big softy….though I wouldn’t trust either with your lunch.

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I think it’s his GSD mum that makes this guy so murderey.

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The eyes of a stone cold killer.

I mean, there's anecdotes and there's data. For what it's worth almost every single staffy or bull terrier breed I come across is either held tightly by the owner so they can't go for the small fluffy animal, off lead with barely an owner in sight and looking like a menace, or she meets them and I get told its fine cos she's a girl but they attack males.
Despite all the cases of them attacking people including their owners a lot can be very affectionate with people which makes it harder to believe when they rip apart any cats they can get their teeth on. But then that's fighting dogs, they weren't bred for people aggression, just animal aggression.

almost every single staffy or bull terrier breed I come across is either held tightly by the owner so they can't go for the small fluffy animal

But on the other hand nearly every single Staffy I know is fine with other dogs.

You really seem to have an axe to grind on this.

My axe to grind is with having to keep a constant eye out for murder machines that see my small fluffy dog as prey. Its against people either purposely get a dangerous dog to try and look hard, that circumvent legistlation by important a pitbull under another name then 3 children are attacked in as many months all by that same breed. Then by extension it's to people that look at the numbers, new articles, studies and go "nah, I haven't been attacked by one so I don't believe it"

‘Murder machines’! Seriously - go and write moral outrage stuff for the Daily Mail.

You’re basing this on a sample of one (yourself) and lumping Staffies in with dogs proscribed by the DDA to get a reaction from people in this thread who you know are Staffy owners.

You’d probably get more joy on Reddit than here.

Errr I never actually mentioned staffys. Proper English Staffordshire Bull Terriors are generally fine. I was talking about banned breeds like the Pitbull, the American Staffordshire Bull Terrior in reaction to people saying BSL is pointless.

every single staffy or bull terrier breed I come across

You did.

true, I meant I haven't mentioned staffy in regards to being murder machines. But it's true, seeing as you like anecdotes, in the year 1/2 of owning my little pup even the nice staffys we've met have been under the guise of "good thing she isn't male", maybe that's just the area I live in.

Would probably maul a squirrel to death... or not, he can never catch them!

His dog uncle(fox terrier) is a vicious arsehole who hates black dogs and will snap at any dog that tries to sniff his nuts or get in between him and a bit of cheese.

Come to think of it, I think the issue is he still has his nuts but that's a sore subject for his dad.

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