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• #2327
This I really struggle to comprehend from any of the points of view involved:
https://twitter.com/MaxRTucker/status/1512529009661419530121,000 Ukrainian children have been forcibly removed to Russia, Ukraine’s Ombudswoman says. Now Moscow plans to simplify the procedure for Russians to adopt these children, potentially separating them from their families forever. This calculated cruelty is astounding.
Another article on mass deportations
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/31/putins-gulag-based-empire-of-abduction-deportation-and-modern-slavery/I know this was common under the Soviet system but just seems hard to understand in the modern more connected world how you think you can integrate people this way into a new culture and society. Guess it is one way they are trying to tackle their terrible demographic problems.
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• #2328
I guess it's about taking away any assets and crush everything make it impossible to live. So fucking depressing
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• #2329
"Removing" (aka kidnaping) children from undesirables and adopting with "suitable" families is pretty standard in totalitarian regimes. See the Desaparecidos/Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo in Argentina. iirc it was happening in Spain until surprisingly recently. albeit more common with unmarried young women and their newborns.
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• #2330
Actually it's very positive to free yourself from nationalism. It allows you to hold your own country and your allies to account. We wouldn't have slave trade reparations without it. It also allows us to see things from the point of view of our enemy, which helps us to defeat him. Perhaps you don't know the saying "those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". I guarantee that officers in our forces have it drummed into them. It's also grossly mendacious and self-defeating to accuse someone of war crimes without admitting that all sides commit them. When this is all over, Nato desperately needs to emerge with moral authority. If we do, it will actually prevent some wars and save lives.
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• #2331
Totally agree.... with the added dimension that we should not forget other wars/military operations or whatever they are called going on at the moment. A barbaric bombing of Yemen civilians by the murderous Saudi regime we are happily buying oil and gas springs to mind.
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• #2332
Whether or not US/UK/anyone else has ever committed war crimes does not diminish the disgusting Russian crimes.
Enough with the whataboutism. -
• #2333
I'm sure they're big enough to fight their own corner but that wasn't the point that was being made - as I understood it. nor did JVB at any point say 'russia aren't doing anything wrong', as has been claimed by others itt.
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• #2334
Whether or not US/UK/anyone else has ever committed war crimes does not diminish the disgusting Russian crimes.
Enough with the whataboutism.No one has said it diminishes them, and it's not whataboutism.
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• #2335
It's a calculated move by Putin to erase Ukrainian nationality. The kids will grow up Russian, and he can carry on saying that Ukraine as a country has never existed. The idea is that there won't be future generations of Ukraine nationals. He wants to move Russians into new cities which he'll build to replace the ones he destroys. So the next generation of people on Ukrainian soil will be Russians who live in whatever name he gives to the new oblasts (provinces) of Russia which he wants to establish. Russia is presently divided into 85 oblasts, if you count the illegal ones he created in the bits of Ukraine he stole in 2014. I wonder if the name 'Ukraine' will be given to a new oblast? He might want to prove his point by inventing somewhere called Putingrad.
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• #2336
Intent may be there, but it will never work. What he has created though is the generation upon generation of Ukraine people who will never ever forget what he/Russia has done to them. The hatred of Russian people will also spread elsewhere, they will become persona non grata in many of places all over the world. Which unfortunately will create many more little Putins.
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• #2337
It's not whataboutery, it's directly and urgently relevant, because governments being asked to supply arms to Ukraine, or vote against Russia at the UN, make exactly these comparisons, and so do their citizens. They haven't forgotten that two thirds of Brits wanted Blair to be tried for war crimes, and the case against him doesn't diminish just because Putin is 1000 times worse,
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• #2338
Someone made the connection earlier in the thread to Holodomor in the 1930s, which I knew very little about. Forced famine, forced relocations, erasure of Ukrainian language and culture, repopulation by Russians. Different tactics but seemingly same intent. Horrifying.
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• #2339
I never said it would work! Everything he's doing is failing, thank God. Vindman has just tweeted very optimistically that Russia needs 14 times more troops than they have on the southern front. He is campaigning 24/7 for the US to send heavy weapons. He needs ro demonstrate that the Russians are beatable. Americans don't like to commit to the losing side.
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• #2340
They are as we have seen beatable, but at what cost to civilian life we don't know. Mariupol razed to the ground and Kharkiv too is what they want now. Their own loss of life does not matter anymore, it is about showing the world they are a force to reckon with. I'm hoping for that silver bullet to end this nightmare, although paranoia has already set in with Putin, so not much chance for that.
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• #2341
Anne Applebaum wrote good book abot Holodomor
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• #2342
she's great
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• #2343
Some early reports about a chemical attack in Mariupol.
Some speculate it might've been Sarin - cozy read before bedtime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin
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• #2345
Dvornikov bringing his lessons from Syria
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• #2347
Paywalled, presumably?
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• #2349
Have another paywalled article
https://www.ft.com/content/5f9452fc-2707-473f-bfa0-618b029fa3b4Ukraine has been a rare success for UK foreign policy
Spread terror, force civilians to flee, break the civilian population to the point they give up supporting any resistance