Russian invasion of Ukraine

UK and others are giving anti-ship missiles. No details, but hopefully in time to prevent a landing at Odessa.

I think the West suffers a bit from a misconception were they think democracy or any kind of elections will solve all problems but that's too simple. The protests in Eastern Europa that started the fall of the iron curtain were mostly because people wanted western levels of prosperity and maybe thought democracy is the way to get it. China shows you can have prosperity without democracy.

Texas was part of Mexico.
The US annexation was very similar to the Russian annexation of the Donbas, with similar BS fifth columnists.
Guam and Okinawa, the Sandwich Islands.
Puerto Rico.
A few attempts at annexing Canada.

I guess the difference is that (to my knowledge) all of those were pre-WW2. It's now 2022 and it seems shocking to have pre-war levels of impirialist expansion.

It is the total shake up and disregard for the post-war World order that is so shocking and different.

Obviously there is a Northern hemisphere privileged to that, as almost all of our post-war conflicts have been proxy ones.

However, I would say that it is a stretch to claim that the only reason for the US vilifying Russia/Putin is a distraction. If it is, then why are countries that normally stay out of these things condemning it in such force in way not done with other conflicts?

Go and fuck yourself. And your ‘smaller words’ comment is an aside.
‘Russia isn’t doing anything wrong’ - are you completely oblivious to the fact that they have invaded another country? To me, this is wrong. The invasion, or perhaps you call it a ‘military operation’ is wrong on every front. I was going to say ‘disregarding the military opposition’ but that’s wrong - the invasion is and has been an attack on the citizens and populace of Ukraine. It’s not been a military vs military confrontation. Russia has demolished towns and cities - who did they expect to kill?
The population of Ukraine seems to around 44 million - Russia has attacked centres of population. I understand that ‘war isn’t fair’ but Russia. Has deliberately attacked civilians. It has not been army vs army in some barren landscape. ‘Normal people’ have been killed.
Your opinion is extremely offensive and unconscionable to me. You are a first level cunt and nothing else.

^^^ I know you were answering the question, rather than supporting JVBulman's point.

I presume you are in the UK?

I'm saying all of them roll into other territories and murder civilians with impunity and treating Russia's actions as uniquely evil is propaganda.

During Iraq and Afghanistan, did the US and UK specifically target civilians, go into towns and round people up to murder, and use rape as a weapon of war?

If you look at Chechnya, again I don't think in recent times the West has carried out similar levels of atrocities.

You can definitely point to Vietnam and other earlier conflicts tho.

Yes. Why?

Have you been affected by any military actions during your lifetime?

Only terrorism, and indirectly by the Yugoslav civil war.

Also I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Such simplification of context, shocking.

I’ve been affected by terrorism for the majority of my life - some people called it war, others terrorism. Some people objected to the military some welcomed it. The military here didn’t rape and kill people at will. I object to any point of view that an invasion of another country is appropriate. History is history and people should learn from it. Justifying an invasion in these times is just disgraceful.
Comments about Vietnam (60s and 70s) are not helpful as that was 50 years ago and, in my mind, people should have matured enough to avoid a repeat.
I’m totally incensed by anyone justifying this invasion of Ukraine - as you may have gathered.

Just to be clear, I don't think I have once justified the invasion of Ukraine, ever.

Likewise, I thought my post 2283 in reply to JVBulman was clear, and that my questions were leading highlight exactly how Russia's actions differ.

The comparison with Vietnam and earlier conflicts and atrocities (thinking particularly of the nuclear attacks on Japan), is relevant. It points out how shocking it is to see a major power that sits on the Security Council to act in a way that harks back to the early part of the last century.

TBH I think you are mixing my posts up with the other guy.

I won’t admit any mistake just now. I really have a problem with anyone trying to justify this madness - using history as reasoning or any other reason - it’s wrong.
My ‘friend’ who supports the invasion mentioned that the atomic bombs in Japan were actually ONLY carried out to test the effectiveness of the weapons by the USA and not actually to end the war. Oddly, you mention this too. He may be right - I do not have the necessary knowledge or inclination to research it.
I will apologise to you if you feel I have been abusive to you, but I stand by my comments about the invasion - and anyone who supports it for whatever reason.

I do not have the necessary knowledge or inclination to research it.

Fantastic bit of self-awareness this.

Go and fuck yourself. The relevance of two atomic bombs dropped on Japan 60 years ago is somewhat overshadowed by recent events. I do not believe the bullshit my ’friend’ produces.

Explain this

Ukraine war: Disbelief and horror after Krematorsk train station attack https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61055105

Such simplification of context, shocking.

You're right, reading back, I'm fixated on a broader issue and haven't said much about this particular instance in a thread that's specifically about it. I got lost in generalization trying to express my discomfort at the thought that the propagation of the horrible images we've all been seeing lately might be being used as a tool by my government to revive cold-war tensions and I should have been more concise in my original post and left it at that. I'm sorry.

Why are you so fixated on this idea that I have any connection to this person you know? I live in the States and I don't know you beyond the exchanges we've had in this thread today.

I never said this invasion was justified. I don't support Russia. I also never mentioned Japan, which has me confused as to why you're bringing that up at all...

Pump the brakes.

‘Russia isn’t doing anything wrong’ - are you completely oblivious to the fact that they have invaded another country? To me, this is wrong.

I think you've misunderstood the quoted text.

It reads

my point isn't that Russia isn't doing anything wrong

Nobody is justifying what Russia is doing right now, in this thread I mean

To translate what you have said - you are sorry that images of the death and mutilation of non -combatants may reflect badly on your government.

It’s very difficult for me to not get very annoyed by this. Basically you are an apologist for the images. The images are real and the death of ‘real’ people is not something to be taken lightly. These images, according to you, are a tool which your government uses to revive Cold War issues??? They are much more to an that - they are images of the death and suffering of human beings. These unfortunate people have friends and families - a concept you clearly have no idea about.
It’s all a conspiracy between the USA and Russia played out in some form of mythical game. It’s not! People are dying and have died as a result of this Russian invasion.
You cannot justify one part of this, historically or otherwise.
You are a disgrace.

Maybe I misread this as an apology. The words ‘I’m sorry’ confuse the issue. And they weren’t justifying anything - but they apologised? Are you his mate????

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@TGR your reading comprehension skills really are shit.

Are you his mate????

Addressing this first the answer is no