Russian invasion of Ukraine

Unfortunately it fits the pattern of history. Men doing the most unspeakably depraved things at scale as soon as war starts.

They've been brainwashed for decades.

My girlfriend's grandfather who came from Soviet Union and lived here in Lithuania for 50 years still doesn't speak a word Lithuanian and he hates Ukrainians with all of his heart. "They're not people" he said.

My girlfriends uncle, who seems like a decent guy, well off and everything, even he got into a discussion that Crimea and whole Ukraine should be a part of Russia.

These are people who've been living in a free country for many decades but been consuming Russian media so one can just wonder how brainwashed are people inside Russia.

They've been brainwashed for decades.

Brainwashed yes, but to me that alone doesn't explain the level of cruelty. There are irredentist conflicts everywhere, but few of them involve cluster ammunition intentionally aimed at children.

I think the west shouldn't have anything to do with Russia.

Full on embargo, club north Korea. No visas, no import/export, nothing.

I'm with you on this. I'd opt to live with no gas or electricity at all for a period of time if it saved a single life in Ukraine.

Nato members met Ukraine's foreign minister yesterday and agreed to supply heavy weapons. https://www.ft.com/content/1c0e6e15-c8fe-4a84-99dc-12b6836bf0f4

Details haven't been announced. Last night the Telegraph said there would be long range artillery, but they've since edited that out. The Ukraine defence minister saw weapons demos on Salisbury Plain yesterday. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-defence-ministers-host-ukrainian-government-to-plan-future-military-aid Truss said "There was support for countries to supply new and heavier equipment to Ukraine. We agreed to help Ukrainian forces move from their Soviet-era equipment to Nato standard equipment, on a bilateral basis.” Blinken said Washington was looking at sending “new systems” to Ukraine. “We are looking across the board right now, not only at what we have provided . . . [but] whether there are additional systems that would make a difference.”

securing a warm water port with access to fresh water.

That was the reason given 8 years ago, and it does make strategic sense. The Sevastopol naval base had been used by Russia/the USSR since the 18th century. A lot of money was spent on it during the Cold War. When the USSR broke up in 1991 and Ukraine got independence, Russia lost the right to use it, so they leased it. And then stole it in 2014.

"for the children"

Apparently it translates as "for our children".

OK, that's a massive difference actually.
Doesn't excuse the act of course.

Makes it less horrendous but more complex!

"Our" was the BBC translation. My post was on the assumption it is correct.

In the book 'Believe and Destroy' about the intellectual and ideological framework of the upper crust of the SS there are excerpts from a letter some German soldier sends home to his wife from the Eastern front. He describes in some detail how repulsive it is to him to kill children, but that he understands that this is something he must force himself do so in order to create a safe future for his own children. (The reference being how the Jews definitely were up to something and it was only a matter of time etc etc.)

So yeah, I guess brainwashing might have a lot to do with this after all.

Himmler said it was necessary because those children would grow up seeking revenge on the Germans.

Russians would follow the same reasoning , given their constant whining about everyone being out to get them.

Do you think it'd be better for everybody to just stop talking to Putin?

Not really sure what talking to him has achieved to date. Square root of fuck all as far as I can see.

That’s some pretty fucked mental gymnastics - to murder someone, and then have to ‘keep murdering’ in order to protect ‘your children’ from revenge on your actions..

Krematorsk attack was allegedly reported by russian state media five minutes before it happened, initially lauded as a russian attack on Ukrainian military supplies:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1512365048018132997.html

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TBF he was like nearly head of the Nazis, no one's defending the evil.

Not really sure what talking to him has achieved to date. Square root of fuck all as far as I can see.

Not strictly defending that either, but I'd rather have the option of having the cunt on the end of a phone than not in case it helps, I'm not up enough on his actions to say whether it's helping now though.

I can't seem to go a day without stumbling upon a photo of dead civilians in my feeds without any sort of content warning across multiple platforms. The lack of censorship or content warnings is beginning to be deliberate...

Got this one for you

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I'm not keen on graphic images of dead people either but this is a thread dedicated to discussion of a military invasion which includes mass murder of civilians. Surely that's enough of a content warning?

Russian FM says Ukrainians themselves launched the rocket, hence the writing is such.
I just don't understand the logic how can they avenge their children for bombing their own people but ok.

Found on some pro-russian news outlet: https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Bombing-in-Kramatorsk-by-Ukraine-Justifies-Russian-Operation-FM-20220408-0017.html

Sorry, i hate to potentially start a row but this image is ridiculous.

Seriously?

Let me get this straight - you don't want to see gore in your news feed and that picture offends you as well? I'm sorry then.

It's a little cringe but it has a point.

Not really sure what talking to him has achieved to date.

True, it's not been much use so far, but in a much longer time frame transcripts of these conversations might prove quite useful.

If we get a chance to establish a legal case in the future, either in an international court against Russia as a whole or in the very least against captured Russian officers in a Ukrainian court, near daily ramblings from the man at the top could be useful in establishing who knew what and when.
And then there is the academic bit. We're still widely studying WW2 academically, imagine how useful it would have been if we had transcripts of regular conversations between Hitler and, let's say, the Canadian prime minister at the time.

And we might as well have pretty boy Macron do the deed. He's got plenty of experience tending to the needs of people significantly older than himself.

I'm not sure you have got it straight.

While I'm obviously not particularly keen on gore, I'm well aware of what I'm letting myself in for by entering this thread and by clicking the links, and it seemed to me that jvbulman's post was making an observation on how common uncensored imagery has become rather than complaining about it.

The point that image is making is juvenile and, to be honest, quite stupid. It's perfectly possible to both care about the civillian casualties and find the imagery distressing. The two most likely go hand in hand.