Russian invasion of Ukraine

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  • That China is supporting Russia with the USA chemical weapons labs theory gives me little hope of China riding in to side with The West.

  • Bereaved relatives talk to their friends and neighbours. Slowly the community becomes aware. This always happens, despite news blackouts.

  • At least some of the young people in Russia think for themselves

    https://youtu.be/3yKJFysG2i0

    the thing that worries me is that after ukrainian refugee crisis We will have to deal with russian refugees as Well.

  • I dont know whether its just a big coincidence but I've seen three cars with Russian plates in London since Friday morning. One of them looked like it had a lot of possessions in.

  • Bear in mind that the USSR continued for nearly forty years after Stalin's death, and there are many admirers of him still, just as there are many admirers of Putin. The structure that sustained all that is still there; Putin controls it.

  • I don't feel so optimistic about this analysis. It feels disingenuous. The description of how 'The West' will reunify and the US will dominate is the stuff of nightmares for China.

    It will be a life-and-death battle between those for and against Western democracy.
    ...
    China should rejoice with and even support Putin, but only if Russia does not fall. Being in the same boat with Putin will impact China should he lose power. Unless Putin can secure victory with China’s backing, a prospect which looks bleak at the moment, China does not have the clout to back Russia.

    Ignoring the conclusion, a lot of the build-up seems to push China into a position where they feel compelled to support the 'underdog' or end up in this scenario anyway:

    Once Putin falls, the U.S. will no longer face two strategic competitors but only have to lock China in strategic containment. Europe will further cut itself off from China; Japan will become the anti-China vanguard; South Korea will further fall to the U.S.; Taiwan will join the anti-China chorus, and the rest of the world will have to choose sides under herd mentality. China will not only be militarily encircled by the U.S., NATO, the QUAD, and AUKUS, but also be challenged by Western values and systems.

  • Isn't this the whole point of Belt and Roads, to escape being bound by the shackles of western imperialism? They are literally trying to build an alternative world order and have a lot of countries locked in to it already, can't see them changing course.

  • Russia saying they'll pay their foreign debts in roubles now
    https://www.ft.com/content/299c95ec-8c01-472e-99ec-feeb1a4b2c66

  • For those that liked the analysis on China that @Gustav posted, there are now three postscripts added to the post:
    https://twitter.com/ramez/status/1503050231625109506

  • FT report Russia asking China for help. This is a worrying development.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Dimi/status/1503093727065264129

  • Only if they say yes. I don't know that the Chinese govt wants to have this as their moment of conflict with the west and most of Asia. Better to tell Putin to offer a generous ceasefire and THEN rearm him.

  • Apparently how it is being pitched on a flagship news show

    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1503048996205600769

  • That kinda hangs together though, esp from a Russian point of view.

  • Whether the regime believes it or not it's exactly what they say they fear. There's some evidence that they do believe it, either just lipservice or genuinely held belief but to all intents and purposes those are no different.

    It honestly seems to me that the "exceptionalism" that is caused by being a superpower/empire builder that then fails is a root cause. Why look inwards when you can maintain that you're better than the others and they've dragged you down... also looking at the US and UK here. Cynically, politicians can leverage this feeling in people that they're oppressed by "them" to justify any old shit.

  • Isn't this a rational fear from a Russian point of view though? Not saying it's right or morally sound, but if you consider Nato the enemy and Nato keeps getting closer. Then your next-door neighbour starts working towards the idea of actually joining. I mean, hard to not see it as an agressive act.

    It's easy to just write Putin and Russia off as nutters similar to Trump a few years ago, but it's of course more complicated than that.

  • It's obviously a rational fear if you're the sort of person who thinks everyone likes to start wars. I can't see NATO attacking Russia but would Ukraine have gone to take back everything other than the Crimea if they had the NATO umbrella to protect them against Russian involvement; hard to say.

    Does anyone have any insight into how India is dealing with the war internally in the media? I don't do much social media but LinkedIn posts that are anti-war have some of the most vicious replies from two countries; Serbia and India. It could just be that that India has a huge population so the 0.1% of people (or whatever that number is) who are pro-Putin are still a huge number, but I've been surprised at the vitriol on some posts and given Modi's autocratic leanings, it wouldn't be a surprise to hear the Indian gov were trying to spin a narrative to help Putin a bit.

  • Police in Nizhny Novgorod arrested a demonstrator today for protesting with a blank sign.
    Welcome to Russia in 2022.

    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1502761903046774786

  • You are naive. Putin is of unsound mind and so is Trump - it is that simple.

  • Ukraine would not have been able to join NATO if Crimea and Donbas were unresolved.

  • hard to not see it as an agressive act

    Your neighbour arming themselves or making friends with your enemies is not an "aggressive act" and does not justify you going round to their house and pre-emptively hospitalising them, even if you are fearful.

    Unless I misunderstand the meaning of aggression.

  • My Russian colleague at work pointed out that the original invasion of Crimea was to secure access to the Black sea. This is the only port that Russia has with access to a coastline that doesn't freeze in winter. He also pointed out that Crimea is historically short of water, which is piped in from mainland Crimea.
    We know that Ukraine cut this supply off as one of their responses to the invasion of the Crimea, so you can see how this all feeds into their paranoia.

  • Apparently this is an old Soviet joke - 'everyone knows what the problem is, so why bother writing it down?'

  • Usound yes. Evil, maybe. You can put plenty of words there, but I don't think we can write them off as nutters, that would be making it too easy for ourselves.

  • Yeah sorry, bad choice of word on my side there. I didn't mean agressive as in attacking, maybe more as in 'proactive' or something along those lines

    Agree with what you say

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Russian invasion of Ukraine

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