Russian invasion of Ukraine

Ukraine reportedly have killed Gen. Maj. Gerassimov. The story gets even better after that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500959074653024259

I'm not talking about humanitarian aid, I absolutely support that, and looking after refugees who are able to get out. I'm talking about military assistance - giving the Ukranian government the means to prolong the conflict. That's what I don't support.

I can probably rustle up some work as well, seems like a good way to help. Maybe make a public list?

OK, I'm confused

Thanks for the offer of words in my mouth but I'm not saying either of your straw-man arguments.

I see two big flaws in what you are saying.

Firstly, what the UK or any third country does in a war is a decision for us that we have to make ourselves, mainly based on our own interests and taking into account international law regarding supplying arms to combatants. That is what we always have done and - like it or not - it is what we will do now. The decision is ours to make, not Ukraine's.

Then you implicitly assume that Ukraine will get a better outcome by fighting longer, harder and more dirtily.

You might be right - maybe the Russians will say, hmmm, this one is proving a bit harder than we thought. Perhaps we'll pull out now, hope the Ukranians forgive us, although they'll probably join NATO and we'll have American bases that bit closer to us.

I don't believe the Russians will do that, not any time soon. Based on what I've heard and read, I believe they have decided this is the point at which they stand and fight for their interests which, rightly or wrongly, revolve around preventing Ukraine being part of a hostile alliance. If the resistance is stiffer they will hit harder, fire more missiles and bombs, flatten more cities, kill more people over a longer period, and we'll end up with Chechnya on a larger scale.

If I thought that sending some arms to Ukraine could prevent that outcome I would support it. I just don't think it would work. I'm fine with others having a different view and I would love to hear the explanation why / how it could work.

Where does this argument end though? Should we apply it to all the ex-soviet states? If so 1/3 of Europe will be Russian soon.

Most of the others are already in NATO, so it would be a different situation.

Just for my benefit, are you just suggesting to let the Russians get it over with, turn Kyiv into Grozny, subjugate and destroy a nation as they seem to have planned even against the stated wishes of the Ukrainian government? I appreciate a government is not every single person, but they're as close as you get to the "will of the people" sort of thing.

Honestly the history, religion and politics of Yemen are completely beyond me and I don’t feel competent to use my western analysis if it.

What about Sierra Leone?

https://nitter.net/christogrozev/status/1500959074653024259

Haven't seen it myself yet but apparently Corbyn has released a series of videos on Tik Tok and Twitter outlining his position on Putin and the Oligarchs including how the 2019 Labour manifesto directly addressed the risks of appeasing Putin and allowing Russian money to flow into our economy and also the fact that he was protesting against Putin's war crimes during the period that Tony Blair gave him a state visit.

Probably quite uncomfortable watching for the Corbyn is Pro-Putin plonkers.

I've never believed that Corbyn is electable and I also think that he has a lot of dodgy shit on his hands from his time as leader and he has some views that I don't agree with but the level to which people will just make stuff up about him has always suprised me.

The video is okay, nothing too exciting and it's never going to bother too many people. Half of his problem, though, was his inability to take a clear stance on certain things. I don't think he was being malicious but I think that genuinely, his eagerness to create some sort of consensus (or just argue minutiae) in the Labour party meant he prevaricated which leaves an open goal to call him an anti-semite, pro-Brexit etc.

Ummmmmm……. Hmm.

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Ironically he's the ultimate centrist dad, forever trying to bring a lengthy both sides argument into a 24hr news sound-bite world.

Oh I see. That's a tough question. If (and it's a big if) the stories about the shortcomings of the Russian army are true, it seems possible that if Ukraine is given a flow of good weapons and training, Ukraine could stop them advancing and force them to settle for a 'Crimea corridor' strip. Wouldn't that be better than allowing Russia to occupy Kyiv etc? It's impossible to answer really...but my instinct would be that if the majority of Ukrainians really want to fight, they should be helped. It's their country. Plus, if Putin is given an easy win, he will probably go on to terrorise people somewhere else.

The Albanian capital Tirana has renamed the street of the Russian and Ukrainian embassies to “Free Ukraine”. That's top class trolling, right there.

Others will get bored and move on to the next crisis. Palestinians, Yemenis, Somalis and others have all been through the same cycle.

Except they're white and in Europe.

The countries you listed get largely ignore because they're "not us".

Also we are at war with Islam.

This is the most depressing part, that people care more just because of its proximity to their last stag-do.

True. There's a lot of racism and xenophobia in Britain. The Brexit campaign revealed this nation for what it is. Plenty of people would rather save a donkey than someone with dark skin.

https://nitter.net/navalny/status/1501123330262380551

I agree with the overall sentiment, and from the off I've felt a bit uncomfortable about people shouting about how we need to take in Ukrainian refugees when we were so awful with the handling of Syrian refugees.

However, it is totally understandable that we relate more to the invasion of a European country with a similar cultural heritage.

Even more so when it borders a series of NATO countries - eg what happens if there is a skirmish on the Polish border?

I think you're right. This isn't the era of politics to be publicly seen to value discourse. It's a massive own goal that leads to being accused of being an apologist.

Plenty of people would rather save a donkey than someone with dark skin.

Even in the invasion of Ukraine, there are people who mourn the loss of an airplane that got destroyed in Ukraine to the point of making a lots of content about it.

It was also weird the extent that people made stuff up about Corbyn. It's not like he was so competent that there was no other way to attack him.