Russian invasion of Ukraine

Why not flip it and help everyone?

Tbh I think there's more than money at stake here. Europe is helping Ukraine as it could be us next. America is helping Ukraine to side with Europe but also due to their history with Russia / USSR

Because in one war the aggressor is our adversary and we have no interest in their success as they don't buy much from us. And in the others the aggressor is our ally who does buy loads of stuff from us.

This isn't consistent with the facts:

United Kingdom Exports to Saudi Arabia was US$4.14 Billion during 2021

United Kingdom Exports to Russia was US$3.82 Billion during 2021

Source: United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade

Pretty similar scale of exports.

The Russia number is actually half what it was a decade ago, and I am sure that is connected to sanctions.

Ps - I make no excuses for the blind eye we turn to the Saudi war against Yemen. It is appalling.

I'd rather the (somewhat racist) realisation that war (against white people) is shit and invading and occupying people is wrong spills over into the other conflicts and occupations happening further afield than our complicity or ignorance of conflicts further afield spilling over into our reaction to this one.

You could view the Palestinian situation as Western Democracies supporting another democracy which has been under threat from Soviet/Russian supported Dictatorships with the Palestinians as unlucky pawns.

The Kremlin has announced its demands for ending the war in Ukraine:
-Ukraine must change its constitution to guarantee it won't join any "blocs", i.e. NATO + EU.
-Must recognise Crimea as part of Russia.
-Must recognise the eastern separatist regions as independent.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1500810351192985600

Kremlin told Ukraine that it can halt operations at any moment if Kyiv meets Russia’s conditions.

• Demilitarisation
• Constitutional amendment to reject joining any blocs — Reuters
https://mobile.twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1500800920854147077

Not yet up on the BBC website. Any verified news sources?

Im sure they are thrilled at the prospects of not beeing allowed to join nato and also have no military to speak off. Kinda convenient for russia tho.

On the BBC live updates page about 15 mins ago

Agreed.
And with @Aroogah's post just below yours.

We can’t help everyone so we shouldn’t help anyone.
Great.

I did not know that, thanks!

What should we do? Nothing, because it most likely won't help.

We actually can do something - like spreading awareness by protesting near embassies / writing your MPs or "fighting on the front of information" - which is quite big here in Lithuania and some cases are bizarre - like spamming random Russian numbers with messages like:

"Hello - as you know there's a war in Ukraine and we're doing a survey - would you go fighting if you were drafted? Reply 'No' or 'Yes'"

And people actually reply "Nyet! Nyet!" - of course everything's in Russian.

More "real" help would be donating money to various organisations (either for refugees or for soldiers) or clothing. Unless you imply that even that kind of help likely won't help - which is of course possible.

Even more "real" help is going near Polish border and volunteering.

And the "realest" help, of course, would be enlisting in a foreigners legion of Ukraine. I've read that around 20 thousand people from 52 countries enlisted, some of them are already fighting.

Just saw this: some ex military from England are already there. https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500706664630165507

I'm saying that we are not helping other opressed people with similar needs today so how do we choose? On what basis do Ukranians deserve help but Palestianans and Yemanis do not? Or Somalis?

The sad and obvious truth is that we can't help everyone. We can't solve all the problems.
I choose caring for Ukraine because it's 500 kilometers from my hometown and we share the same heritage of Soviet Occupation.

There's plenty of evil in the world but if we switch subject from Ukraine to Yemenis or Uyghurs then it's nothing but whataboutism.

I choose caring for Ukraine because it's 500 kilometers from my hometown and we share the same heritage of Soviet Occupation.

There might be more in common than just the heritage.
Preventing Ukraine from showing how successful they can be as a more democratic and European country, to the Russian people, and taking their resources and having access to the Black Sea might be reasons for Putin to have this war, but so might recreating the buffer zone around Russia, which could also affect other neighboring countries. Which brings this very close to us in Finland too.

@frank9755 if you don't mind, I am going to rephrase your question

On what basis do Ukranians deserve help, but those fleeing the conflict, namely migrant workers from poorer countries that aren't European, black students treated violently by armed militia, denied access to shelters during bombing raids, denied access by border patrols into neighbouring countries.

whataboutism can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fcuk right off

And Priti Patel right back up to top spot in the tory worstcunt charts -

Lies to MPs that there is an application centre set up for Ukrainian refugees in Calais when all there is is a shitty poster.

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1500869613135056897

By “we” do you mean the U.K. government? Because it doesn’t help it pretty much never has helped. Globally our net good column is in the negative.

We have independent agencies that try to help all these people using money donated by British individuals, but the government? Nah don’t bother they’re effectively cunts, always have been.

Love the phone spam idea.

I'm making a list of displaced Ukrainian creatives / designers / illustrators looking for freelance. Will be sharing it with with my agency in hopes we can get some people work to stay afloat.

Unfortunately that is not the case. As an example, it seems there is even a fair amount of support for Putin among immigrants who moved from Russia to Germany in the 90s and still consume a lot of Russian-speaking media.

Could you share with me too please we need design freelancers atm, sounds like a nice idea.

That's a rather simplistic argument if you don't mind my saying so. For one thing you're overlooking the newness of the Ukraine refugee issue. The perceived needs of Ukrainians have shock value now, but that will fade. In a few months some people will say "I've already given to Ukrainians once, I can't keep doing it". Others will get bored and move on to the next crisis. Palestinians, Yemenis, Somalis and others have all been through the same cycle. A DEC appeal is started when a crisis is new, but as the DEC organisers would no doubt confirm, public support wanes over time.

The public also get crisis fatigue, because there are so many crises happening simultaneously, and the almost universal availability of electricity and camera phones and internet services and social media means that we get information about every crisis pushed at us all the time. It would be easy to make a list of 500 groups of people in desperate need, people whose lives we could save for the price of a beer. Then there's the animals in need. And the plants. Getting the help you deserve is a competitive business.

What should we do? Nothing, because it most likely won't help.

OK, I'm confused. Are you saying:

1. The people of Ukraine want to resist an invasion by Russia, but they're wrong, you know better, and they should in fact just give in and become a puppet state of Putin's authoritarian Russian regime; or
   
2. The people of Ukraine should resist an invasion by Russia, but we shouldn't help them, because we haven't helped other oppressed people and consistency in doing the wrong thing is more important than doing the right thing in this case.
   
   

If there's a third option, do tell.

Have a world war Z t shirt, that I got as a freebie, with Z on the front.

Then I don't wear it as t shirt but an under shirt

That is the Nazi playbook

What about Yemen?

The cynic in me see the capitalist approach of being able to pay people alot less.

Hope I am wrong.