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I'm not suggesting that the war is in anyway a positive for anyone, or that there can be any doubt that morally, Putin's actions are objectively wrong. My focus, rather, is on how our response to this might be informed by our ultimate objectives, and the idea that a Ukranian military victory might not in fact be as desirable as a Putin(ian?) political defeat. Putin can win the war and still lose big, particularly if the war is huge and messy. Therein potentially lies the conflict of interest between the west and Ukraine, and why in circumstances where a Ukrainian military victory seems unlikely, it is reasonable to question in whose interest are we really feeding lethal arms into the conflict.
I agree it is a deeply cynical and depressing outlook. Seeing western leaders (at the UN?) today give the Ukranian president a standing ovation for his noble, and ultimately lonely, sacrifice at the alter of western values was gut wrenching.
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carson
I think Carson is very wrong. Putin ordered the invasion of a neighboring country, entirely without justification. If there is something 'morally ambiguous or even dishonest' about the wests 'posture,' how does it hold that position becomes more 'morally certain' as more Ukrainians are obliterated?
'why do we not accept what we believe to be inevitable and not prolong and intensify the suffering of Ukrainians?'
There's nothing inevitable about Russia winning. Who are 'we' to tell the Ukranians to roll over for Russia and put up with another Yanukovych styled puppet? 2014 is less than a decade ago, how do you think it would go for protestors of the next regime?
'Apart from the violation of the principal of national sovereignty, does the West really care about the fate of Ukraine?'
Seriously??? Europe's entire post-war settlement, economic order, the formation and expansion of the EU is built around rules based, democratic principles. So yes, a regressive autocrat threatening nuclear war and sending a 30k long army column towards the Capital city of a fledging democratic fellow traveler is incredibly threatening to western values, both human and philosophical.
'We clap for an independent Ukraine, but having Russia bogged down in a ghastly, messy war of occupation is perhaps of far more practical use to us, isn't it?'
It's a fucking disaster for everyone. Even if you believe that there may be some eventual positives if the Russians decide to oust Putin and reform in a manner more conducive to western priorities, it's going to be a long period of desperate uncertainty, political infighting, instability and suffering. Sure, there's no doubt a cohort of western disaster capitalists that will embrace that, but for fuck's sake, you can't seriously suggest a war on the doorstep is a positive for anyone? Or indeed that the west, outside a few gobby super-hawks are embracing it or cheering it on? It seems remarkably apparent, given the overwhelming consensus for sanctions and indeed the lukewarm response from Russian allies, ex-Belarus, that no one approves of what Putin is up to.
Excuse me if the response seems grumpy but the fatalistic cynicism of that opinion is thoroughly depressing.