What time is it? Watches and horology

Wore this last Friday but posting it today, glad to start having reasons to wear it again.

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I've bought some tat off eBay in the past, but this takes the cheese & biscuits: it's just two pieces of velcro stitched together. For £20 I was expecting something like a NATO.

It's not even any longer than a regular strap when fastened, which was all I wanted.

Pithy feedback incoming...

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Did you look at it before you bought it? Or was it just a lucky, in the dark, phone upside down ebay purchase? Or drunk?

I usually find drunk CB purchases turning up weeks later like surprise gifts.

The pics are "creatively" styled and the rest of their straps are fairly reasonable Watch Gecko quality.

And I'm off the beer, so don't even have that excuse.

Any interest in a Steinhart Ocean One with ceramic bezel - all papers etc included. Purchased in Feb 2015.

Having a bit of a clear out and this doesn’t get worn. What’s a fair price for this £250?

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Bought this around Christmas, just back from service, nothing crazy but dial is nice, blue hands and small second..

Need to find a decent leather strap for it

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Also have these 2 Seiko’s and a LeCoultre ladies tank for sale. If anyone’s interested?

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Also this 21mm @31trum strap - for those what know

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Nuts saving on this if someones been looking?? Only one available. Unfortunately too big for me!

https://www.johnlewis.com/bell-ross-brv294-bl-st-sst-mens-vintage-automatic-chronograph-date-bracelet-strap-watch-silver-black/p3285352

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I'd love to know the honest manufacturing cost of the above. £400?

How come?

Weirdly says it's a woman's bracelet, but men's watch on the top description.

I would really like to know where our money goes when we buy a posh watch. The Chinese have exposed the cost of making a mechanical movement, or sophisticated finishing to dials and bezels and cases. I realise that they steal the IP and don't pay decent wages or taxes or licence fees. It's fascinatimg how our perceptions of luxury are determined by price.

If this was @Howard s I'd be all over it... And if I had money.... [quietly weeps inside]

I would bet the cost of lunch in Geneva that Swiss watchmakers are paid more than Chinese ones, which may need to be factored in.

And of course the fakes are parasitic with regards to the marketing spend of the real brands- enjoying but not contributing.

I would really like to know where our money goes when we buy a posh watch.

Ummmm... In the same post you answered your own question....

I realise that they steal the IP and don't pay decent wages or taxes or licence fees.

I mean... Serarusly

But I'd like numbers. It all helps to assess what you're getting for your money. The Western direct sale makers are relevant too. They don't pay tennis players or racing drivers or high street shops or GQ magazine. Is the intrinsic value of, say, a watch from MWC or CWC as high as a steel Rolex? And when the Chinese improve their wages and working conditions and QC, will their own brands be of equal intrinsic value to a steel Rolex? They already have a huge number of their own brands, and their marketing looks atrocious in our eyes. But it will improve. They'll be giving Seiko a run for their money. Ironically the Chinese have learnt a great deal very fast from making fakes. The quality of the finish is startling compared to just 3 years ago.

eta: Then there's the moral argument, and the happiness argument. A lot of men want a Rolex Sub. They save for it and eventually buy it for, say, 7 grand. They get some happiness and fulfilment and status for their money, most of which goes on marketing and profit margins. If I was the owner of CWC I'd offer a Trees version of their 1 grand auto diver https://www.cwcwatch.com/collections/divers-watches-mechanical-automatic. I'd claim that the intrinsic value of the watch is roughly the same as a sub, and I'd charge 7 grand, of which 6 grand would go on planting 461 trees in the UK. (They're £13 each.) There'd be an optional green dial or case or something, to provide the status.

I mean there are so many points to cover here but it's pretty much the same with any luxury product, whether that's a Gucci handbag or a luxury watch, no?

Yes. But watches are a more interesting case (to me) because of the mechanical complexity and the skyrocketing prices and investment value of certain models. I think it's time to get serious. Nobody seems to be questioning the wisdom and morality of buying a Rolex.

Interesting 'case' you say...

they also have better working conditions.
I have eaten in the Patek Works canteen, its restaurant quality food and incredibly good value as subsidised.

China could make anything its wants but it can’t copy hundreds of years of horological design, innovation and excellence.

They could compete with Patek if they chose to, and put in the time and the money. They could do a Richard Mille and develop a new kind of movement. They have a sophisticated engineering base, but it's not focused on watches. Their military jets will be as good as Western ones within a decade. Nothing to stop them doing the same in other industries.

Compared to how much you have to pay an estate agent to sell a house, the B&R is a bargain ;)

They could compete with Patek if they chose to, and put in the time and the money. They could do a Richard Mille and develop a new kind of movement.

So they could invest in their people and their technology and their IP... And then they can become like Richard Mille?! Like an expensive (really expensive) luxury brand? Where they sell loads of watches much more expensive, mostly from brand equity? Are you saying you own loads of Chinese brands and are hoping they climb in value so you can make a fortune?

You're talking about them becoming a posh watch, and asking where the money goes?

You do know how the economy works right? How the sum of the parts costs less than the finished goods? Profit? Marketing?

You can buy value brands if you don't like the thought of spending over the dollar for rolex. In fact, most watches, if you buy second hand, you can get them for less than retail, sometimes less than what it costs to manufacturer.

Nobody seems to be questioning the wisdom and morality of buying a Rolex.

Wut