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  • They're saying membership to and international organisation is not something one has a democratic right to.

    Even if that's correct, surely the people of Ukraine have a democratic right to seek membership of NATO. It's up to NATO to decide whether to allow them to join, but surely it's up to the people of Ukraine whether or not they try to join.

  • Even if that's correct, surely the people of Ukraine have a democratic right to seek membership of NATO.

    Of course. And I think for a lot of Ukrainians it makes a fuck load of sense. (Although some of Russia's other neighbors are not members of NATO. Finland, for example).

    It's up to NATO to decide whether to allow them to join, but surely it's up to the people of Ukraine whether or not they try to join.

    I certainly hope I never said otherwise. Definitely never intended to.

  • I certainly hope I never said otherwise. Definitely never intended to.

    I don't think you did either! But given that Ukraine has applied to join NATO and NATO has so far said 'not yet' (at most) it seems odd for STW to be fixating upon NATO expansion rather than the more obvious cause for concern - 180,000 Russian troops on the Ukrainian border.

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