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  • I get that, but they can't compel a country to join. I think Stop the War are ignoring the recorded desire of the Ukrainian government to join NATO (and indeed the EU). If Ukrainians stopped electing governments that seek this goal, Russia wouldn't be threatening to invade. Isn't the Stop the War position effectively ignore the democratic will of the Ukrainian people?

  • I get that, but they can't compel a country to join. I think Stop the War are ignoring the recorded desire of the Ukrainian government to join NATO (and indeed the EU).

    I don't think they're ignoring it. They're taking a pretty firm position: that Ukrainian Nato membership should not be something the West should support as it's (in their estimation) more likely to result in war/further conflict than peace. Whether they're right or wrong is up for debate.

    There was an edit after I responded, so I'll add to this:

    Isn't the Stop the War position effectively ignore the democratic will of the Ukrainian people?

    Yes. They state: "It has also declared that Ukraine has a “sovereign right” to join NATO, when no such right exists to join it or any other military alliance." They're saying membership to and international organisation is not something one has a democratic right to. If every country that wanted to join something only needed to express a democratic desire to do so things like Nato (and the EU) would look very, very, different.

  • What is the position under international law where a third party wants to join an alliance, and the existing members willingly agree their membership? I don't know, so I am interested to know if there any legal constraints to this.

    Trying to clarify the point, Ukraine don't have a right to join unilaterally, but do they have the right under international law to join by agreement with existing members?

    I don't know what rights countries have to join (by agreement) military, political or economic organisations, but I would be surprised if these rights were constrained, subject to the organisations themselves being legal?

  • They're saying membership to and international organisation is not something one has a democratic right to.

    Even if that's correct, surely the people of Ukraine have a democratic right to seek membership of NATO. It's up to NATO to decide whether to allow them to join, but surely it's up to the people of Ukraine whether or not they try to join.

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