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I think empty land/property needs taxed more severely as it contributes to the housing crisis.

Agreed. Far too many people sit on property of many sorts watching it appreciate while doing nothing.

calculating the true value of a lived in property is hard

The Valuation Office Agency have a process for it, complete with appeals etc.

My parents live in a lower income part of NL selling their house won't get them anything in Amsterdam. Must be similar for north of England Vs London.

I'm quite happy for people in London with bonkers expensive houses to pay more tax than people in not-London.

3.30pm for the statement about phase 1 of the whitewash apparently. Will be interesting to see how quickly the 'update' is released/leaked.

Taking treatment for parasitic worms? Seems fitting.

It makes sense, because he's also the person who will decide if the ministerial code has been breached ...

I'm quite happy for people in London with bonkers expensive houses to pay more tax than people in not-London.

Sure but what about people whose houses seem bonkers expensive by national standards but are probably just normal family sized houses? How much more should they pay - is the same % as that paid by those with houses outside London already progressive enough, or do you think it should be more than that?

Sure but what about people whose houses seem bonkers expensive by national standards but are probably just normal family sized houses?

This. Just a normal family home, same as my wider family. I just happen to live in London and they live in North Kent. Whats the reason I should pay more? Their houses are bigger than mine!

Whats the reason I should pay more?

On average you get paid more, even the minimum wage is higher to reflect higher costs, although I know in practice there's also massive inequality and poverty. Maybe the same percentage of tax on a property would lead to a leveling of house prices.

On average you get paid more, even the minimum wage is higher to reflect higher costs

There's already a tax on income that takes this into account.

I'm all for taxing wealth. Not sure starting on family homes is the way to go, though. Maybe start with second/third/etc. homes? And/or higher taxes on profits from rental properties?

But those who earn more already pay more as income tax is progressive.

Doesn’t this all come down to what is a fair way to decide who to tax more - is it those with most income? Most assets? Or how people get their wealth and whether it was taxed on accumulation (e.g. inherited or massive CGT gains on houses not taxed)?

I find an argument that e.g. a couple who work 60hr weeks to afford a family home, pay £30k SDLT on buying it and both have to work a less obvious candidate to pay more tax than someone who bought in that same street 20 years beforehand for £150k, paid no stamp and will not pay CGT on disposal.

(disclaimer - this is probably because it is closer to my own situation, but still)

Can confirm I don't get paid more than my brother or parents. Just seems like something thats tricky to apply as a blanket rule.

This. Just a normal family home, same as my wider family. I just happen to live in London and they live in North Kent. Whats the reason I should pay more? Their houses are bigger than mine!

If living in London isn't awesome enough for you to want to pay the tax then move to North Kent. Fewer people wanting to live in London in theory means house prices drop in London and the tax with it.

If living in London isn't awesome enough for you to want to pay the tax then move to North Kent. Fewer people wanting to live in London in theory means house prices drop in London and the tax with it.

So your taxation policy is to destroy communities made up of low(er) earners (because the wealthy will be able to afford it) to put in place a taxation policy which you seem to think will ultimately not raise any/much more money in the long run?

You may just have a career with a Tory think tank.

It's about value, not size. You buy a house, the value massively increases and you pay next to no tax on your massive gain. We are just about to levy a tax on every single worker including those on minimum wage but housing is left alone for political reasons. It would also be far better to tax people who are holding property as opposed to penalising them when selling/moving with SDLT, which means old grannies have no choice but to stay put in 5 bed mansions until they die

(Obviously I am biased as a 30 yo professional who can't afford a mouldy 1 bed, let alone somewhere I'd actually want to raise a child or whatever)

(Would also start with second homes and landlords and leave homeowners alone for now though)

If living in London isn't awesome enough for you to want to pay the tax then move to North Kent.

Well, if yr going to get snide about it...............then suck it up, renter!

yours

In a way the whole £ appreciation game is strange. We bought cos we wanted a bit bigger / we can control what we install (time for solar panels etc when we have £) / it's the same price as renting.

But also because rent can go up year on year if you are unlucky (our LL is actually cool and doesn't do that) & how the heck are you going to pay for housing in your old age / care home costs as you can't even insure yourself.

But it comes with upkeep etc as well. So a property tax with no smaller properties people can afford to downsize into will have some unintended consequences too.

I'd imagine those with bonkers big houses can always let out a room to afford the taxes ;)

Sure but then you need rent controls otherwise the cost gets passed onto the people renting...

It's often hard to downsize when you get older.

Apartments can be ££ bungalows are rare, it's a good point though that perhaps downsizing should incur less of a tax.

Otherwise the pensioner in a 5 bed is stuck with taxes & unable to downsize which I think is not what we are after.

My parents cannot downsize as apartments where they are cost more than their house will sell for.

My dad is looking into converting half of it into an apartment so they can make room in the house for others, it's not cheap or easy either.

We are just about to levy a tax on every single worker including those on minimum wage but housing is left alone for political reasons.

It would be about as popular as the poll tax

I agree, but a) we all know that popular and right are not the same thing b) it will become progressively more popular as more and more young people are priced out forever. I'm not voting to protect my landlord's interests.

Oh, look over there, “Brexit freedoms”

I doubt you could penalise property enough to dent the pricing of it to be honest. Or if you did, the implementing government would lose voters for ever.

You'd also pay a lot of a lot of money to administrate it.

Total non starter.

How about Capital Gains on sale of primary residence? This has always struck me as an unfair tax break for property owners.

It's an incentive for people to improve their homes.

If you sacked it off now, but kept SDLT unreformed, you would be shutting the door about ten years after the horse has bolted.

Someone will have to tackle it sooner or later. Do council tax while you're there.

Fundamentally the issue is that housing can't be both an investment vehicle and a necessity at the same time. On one hand you're asking for the price to go up forever and on the other you want everyone to have access to it. Doesn't work.

It'd kill any chance of downsizing properties so probably wouldn't be good for the supply of larger properties.