Audiophiles hifi appreciation thread old and new

This is dense, but good. Couldn't find a youtube vid

https://www.passdiy.com/project/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback

Would be interesting to identify an amp that is low distortion save for a nice beefy second harmonic to find out

When I get around to it, I have a preamp module that's specifically designed to create 2nd harmonics to try in front of my extremely low distortion power amp. It even has pots on the board to adjust the amount of distortion. As I listen to lots of different genres I'm not sure it'll be a permanent addition, but I'm looking forward to fiddling with it. Designed by the guy that wrote that article actually.

Nelson Pass knows his stuff and makes some great amps.

Ok, that actually makes sense. As dbr mentioned, I can imagine that works well for simple music.

Got lost very quickly!

Exactly, harmonic richness, subtle distortion and compression are absolutely key to what most people associate with a pleasing sound. That reviewer is effectively dismissing a product with having listened to it based on the premise that the closer to an arbitrary theoretical perfection your stats are, the better something will sound. It's a fundamentally nuts proposition.

Yeah I can’t really follow it tbh. My very basic interpretation is that 2nd harmonic distortion amplifies or reinforces the “nice” sounding bits. For some people and some types of music it also creates a more “3D” soundstage… somehow.

I’m into all this though. I like to have a vague understanding of how stuff works, rather than just “it’s old and/or expensive and has glowing bits so must be good”.

harmonic richness, subtle distortion and compression are absolutely key to what most people associate with a pleasing sound

But they are already there in natural music. You don't need a bad amplifier adding more of them.

I guess it's just altering the sound to something that is pleasant rather than grating. On a similar note, one of my recent DAC dongle purchases has an interesting DSP feature. It's a creative sxfi and it can simulate the sound of speakers in a room, rather that in your head via the headphones. Doesn't do great things for all music but some tracks, particularly vocals it is startling how it takes the vocalist out of your head and places them in the room. Similar to a well done binaural recording it makes a very 3 dimensional sound. Works well for movies too.

ASR is hot garbage, circle jerk of people who don’t understand what they’re reading and deciding they don’t like the way something sounds based on words and graphs.

it has to be the most boring corner of the HiFi world.

Desirable added harmonics in hifi is a new concept for me, but that was what I was thinking. Surely the best place to have harmonics is in the recording of the guitar amp, the piano, the mic pre-amp, and then reproduce those as carefully as possible.

Well that kicked off a fun discussion 😂The review for my amp was simply one of many with a similar conclusion. And they never get listened to.

Also, what @rogan said.

I'm not against measuring things. There is an engineering element to reproducing sound, and there are measurable features of speakers, amplifiers etc which are not irrelevant to how they perform.

And there is a lot of BS in subjective hifi reviews as well; i can understand people reacting to that by getting out a few meters. There was a hifi mag which used to include a separate "lab report" as well as the "listened" review. At times, the measured performance coincided with the subjective experience.

I've not read the ASR site so not commenting on that specifically.

At times, the measured performance coincided with the subjective experience

We could analyse these data to guide engineers to optimise the performance parameters which produce effects people like while minimising those which people dislike. For example, it turns out that a lot of people pretty much don't care about harmonic distortion, probably because in the amounts generated by even slightly competently designed amplifiers it's hard to tell harmonic distortion in the reproduction chain from the normal variation in harmonic content produced by different players using instruments made by different makers.

Of course, if you've actually heard a particular player with a particular instrument playing live, you might notice that he sounds like somebody else playing a different maker's instrument once the waves have been wrecked by your objectively inaccurate tube amp, but it's hard for even the most reckless electronics manufacturer to make a trumpet sound like a violin or vice versa; that's something you'd actually have to be trying to do, probably with DSP.

it has to be the most boring corner of the HiFi world.

Corners? In HiFi world?

Wont someone think of the anisohedral noise capacitors?

Surely the best place to have harmonics is in the recording of the guitar amp, the piano, the mic pre-amp

That's where I've ended up after some trying things out.

Anyone interested in amplifier design, especially decreasing distortion in designs should check out Douglas Self :-

https://www.bookdepository.com/author/Douglas-Self

I've found it's a more rewarding way to spend time than reading hi-fi reviews.

But they are already there in natural music. You don't need a bad amplifier adding more of them

Yes but... when it was recorded and mastered and played back, the people who did the recording did so in the knowledge that it sounded as good as they could make it on the enjoyably "flawed" equipment of the day, not in the belief that it would one day achieve perfection by being replicated on flawless future tech.

I'm not saying that modern design, manufacture and measurement can't improve the listening experience, i'm just saying that it doesn't necessarily follow that audio nirvana lies in being the closest to totally transparent.

Edit: Well, I suppose it does if that's how you set the criteria and measure success against it without using your ears...

You're really describing the difference between audio production, where the original sound is deliberately distorted to produce a pleasing result, and audio reproduction where the aim is that if you close your eyes you can't tell whether the band is in the room with you.
If you think your highly distorting playback equipment exactly matches what the artist had in mind when he created the recording, you are hearing his creation as he intended it to be heard. On the other hand, if the artist's preferred medium is live performance, then you will get closest to enjoying his work as he would have wanted by the most faithful possible replication of the sound you would have heard if you had actually been in the room with him.

I want to add a CD player to my setup. anyone got any recommendations for a player (new or old/second hand), up to £300? am I best just finding the cheapest CD player I can live with (i.e. with acceptable aesthetics)? old (to get a higher priced CD player for less money) or new (to get warranty)? where's the best value in the market?! why am I trying to min max my system like this?!!!

I do like the look of old 90s meridian players

If you think your highly distorting playback equipment exactly matches what the artist had in mind when he created the recording, you are hearing his creation as he intended it to be heard.

This is why I only listen to post-1973 Pink Floyd and anything produced by Martin Hannett on my Tannoys

NAD Bee is pretty good for the money.

dredge post but this is cheaper and available on amazon
https://wiimhome.com/Specs.html
https://darko.audio/2022/01/the-wiim-mini-is-the-streamer-youve-been-waiting-for/

I have an old Denon dcd 6.5 that does the trick. My Bluetooth connection failed earlier so I stuck a disc in and was shocked at the sound quality. Been streaming from Spotify for so long that I think my ears just got used to the shitty compressed audio...