Car appreciation... the aesthetics, the engineering, etc

I get where people are coming from on the "bikes are mental fast" thing, but the E63 wasn't slow. 550bhp*/720Nm of torque meant that even as heavy as it was, it got moving pretty rapidly.

Would a 600cc sports bike be that much faster? Any faster, in fact?

*They inevitably give more than this on a Dyno, but the 550 is the figure from Mercedes

It's all about the sensation of speed isn't it? 70mph in a go kart probably feels more exciting than 155mph in a two tonne estate car.

Would a 600cc sports bike be that much faster? Any faster, in fact?

Never ridden a bike, but I bet the power to weight of a bike will be significantly more than the e63, plus all the wind and whatnot.

Don’t suggest that, dammit would spend every winter modding the engine, gearbox, suspension, turbo, supercharger etc.

It's sold - but something like this I would think would "feel" fast at more sensible speeds:

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1974-citro-n-2cv-rally-4x4

Wouldn't want to idle that for long with those exhausts. Cough cough.

Until you try two wheels, you won’t appreciate the acceleration and braking. Check out the numerous videos on YouTube of cars vs bikes. A road legal super bike can be beaten by an F1 car in the bends.

Edit - I worded this very badly!

An F1 car can pull 6G in a bend, no motorbike can do that. I think there's a degree of mythology at play here.

E63 0-60 is 4.2 seconds, a GSX-R from 2006 is 2.35 seconds, so there's a clear advantage for the bike there, absolutely no doubt.

It's all about the sensation of speed isn't it? 70mph in a go kart probably feels more exciting than 155mph in a two tonne estate car.

This is very true. My 996 feels a lot faster than the E63 ever did, because (comparatively) you are sitting on the floor, and you've got no roof to filter out the sounds/wind/etc.

It's amazing, but a BMW (bike) engine conversion would be lighter.

Least they're relatively easy to tinker with!

On the motorbike chat, I've never been on one and am not particularly keen on trying, but I'd say one thing in the car's favour is that I imagine you're more likely to actually use most of the available performance. Getting close to the limit on a motorbike is something I would not be inclined to do! Guess it all goes back to the "I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". Then again, I'm biased and cannot for the life of me see the appeal of driving a quick 2 tonne car, given the choice between a 550bhp 2,000kg car and a 110bhp 1,000kg car I'll take the latter every time (though a modern MX-5 gives around 180bhp I think, while still being just over 1,000kg).

Then again, can't imagine motorway driving in a Caterham would be a particularly enjoyable experience, nor trying to get the roof on in a hurry if it starts pissing down when driving around town.

Still, something like this would seem pretty far up there in terms of how fun a car can be to drive: https://www.gpsevens.co.uk/portfolio-item/caterham-superlight-r300-1-8-k-series-160bhp-6-speed-2005-22995/

A road legal super bike can be beaten by an F1 car in the bends.

I mean, pretty much everything can be beaten by an F1 car in the bends.

.

The only place yo really feel the speed of a bike is on a track, or continent. It the UK its like a chained dog. Same goes for a car too I guess.

But 100% get a bike, ride to track day and thrash a bit, then ride home. Or it will fit in the taxi easy. I could get 2 bikes in my vito no hassle.

You know how you feel when riding the full sus fast down trails just a bit out of your zone in the alps? Yeah thats where a bike starts.

I was trying to make the point that the road bike will accelerate on a straight like an F1 car but lose it in the bends - obviously I failed.

IOM?

To 60, yes. To 100, probably still yes.

It's also definitely not all about being mental fast. Being able to see / feel your suspension, the sound & smell of being in the open air are much more visceral additions than speed.

The reality is probably even quicker than that, street motorbikes leave from standing pretty good as just don't weigh as much, but the roll on speed in 2nd from 30-50mph up to whatever is insane on a powerful bike. The big litre bikes now don't allow /cannot allow full power to wheel until at least 3rd gear (110-130 mph sort of range) as there isn't the traction.

A sorted 600 will keep anyone firmly in trouble, a litre bike with 200+ in it just doesn't make sense on UK roads, even on the tracks you barely get to wind them out. If I ever put a track bike together will likely be a 10-15 year old 600 Yam/Kawasaki/Suzuki

Tidy

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Valid point! Apologies I did miss that when reading it.

Ha! I was blaming myself for being unclear! 😁😁

Oh wow, that's amazing. I'd love one of these but prices are getting serious nowadays

Think we're both due a read up on internet forum etiquette, where the correct response in this scenario is to cast all blame on the other party. Ideally alongside some immature insults ;)

Motorbikes do have a sensation of speed that it's hard to achieve in a car (The Aston was the only car that came close to the level of acceleration), but, and it's a big but, they are shit.

They are statistically the single most dangerous vehicle to its own driver, terrifying at speed, you're always either far too cold or far too hot, and far too often too wet, they break down in the rain and overheat in traffic, you have to wear a gimp outfit to ride one, they are uncomfortable and unlike a car you can't really adjust your position, so you're going to need a new back, new wrists and a new neck if you take them anywhere, you can't fit your shopping into them, and they are uninsurable in the UK because they are constantly being stolen. The vast majority of them are pig-ugly, and once you go above about 250cc they are too heavy to be nimble. Once you go above 600cc they are just too heavy full stop. The only places you can use the performance are places you wouldn't want to, such as motorways. Bikes are horrible on the motorway. And in the countryside you will crash because they never sweep the roads there.
In town the better, faster vehicle is a bicycle, and outside of town it's a car.

My old Triumph Thruxton 900 is by no means considered a big fast heavy bike but it would wheelspin even in 3rd gear at the slightest hint of damp, the engine cooked my legs in traffic, it scared the hell out of me rather too often, and apart from the looks and the sound, I grew to hate everything about it. I was glad to sell it and gave up motorbiking altogether when I did.

I can promise you, if you want fun on two wheels (and don't need reliability, admittedly), nothing beats a Vespa.

True. Sorry about not abusing you ! 😁