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“fancy a rattle on that underage girl?”
She wasn't underage. She was 17.
I think you're either an edge lord or you're being naive.
I hesitate to say this in case it reads as though I'm condoning his actions - which I'm not - , but what he's alleged to have done is not super out there or uncommon.
When I was a teen (almost around the same time) I knew plenty of girls who were seeing men in their 20s, a couple in their 30s. A girl in my halls started going out with a guy in his 20s when she was 14 - but it was "fine" because they didn't have sex till she was 16. I was in a minority of people who thought that was totally fucked. Anyone who's been to those shit but expensive West End nightclubs will have seen old guys with young girls. Same in Cannes, and I'm sure plenty of other places.
As a society we've been horrified by the idea of men having sex with prepubescent children for a while. But it seems like we're only now getting to a stage where people reject the idea of men having sex with pubescent children. I think Epstein's original sweetheart deal shows that pretty clearly.
Idk any teenagers (or none who'd talk to me about it) now, so I have no idea if what was pretty common when I was growing up still happens. But I'd hope it's at least less prevent.
Edit: I'd add that I also don't want to take anything away from Virginia Giuffre's experience. It's fucking horrible and from everything I've seen of her my gut says that it's the truth.
hugo7-
She wasn't underage. She was 17.
In large parts of the US, including the state she was born in and the state she was living in when she met Epstein the age of consent is 18.
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Having been a teenage girl, albeit a decade or so earlier, this is pretty much spot on. We didn’t think we were kids, we thought at 15 upwards we were grown up young women and equal partners to boyfriends in their 20s. It’s only as I got into my 20s and older I understood how childish teens are in comparison and I realised how icky it was.
I don’t think those older boyfriends deliberately/consciously groomed us (so that’s unlike what Epstein and Maxwell were doing), it’s more like society in general groomed us to be flattered by older male attention and to want to be seen as women (ie sexual).
Edited to add: I'm not posting this to say it's ok or excuse anyone, more that I find the current public/media hand wringing quite hypocritical when adult men with teenage girlfriends was so very common back then that a good few of the people who are so very shocked - shocked I tell you - today must have been quite ok with it at the time.
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Er you forgot to mention Bill Wyman but that is a whole world of wierd.
Bobbo
brokenbetty
lynx
I really can’t actually believe the allegations against Andrew with regards to the woman making the accusations to be honest. I mean honestly, how would you bring it up?
Epstein cultivated Andrew for prestige, Andrew cultivated Epstein for holidays and the hope of making cash. He is undeniably not the brightest bulb in the lamp - but would you assume you could say to a Prince of the realm “fancy a rattle on that underage girl?” and think it wasn’t far more likely to blow up in your face?
I reckon her lawyers are just sniffing a payday. Assuming that the Royal Family will pay them off to make it go away.
The fact that the Queen has pulled his titles makes it clear that this isn’t going to happen. Good on Elizabeth.