Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

I didn't quite get what you are trying to say but... Yes I am saying that after vaccine efficacy has rapidly waned the data suggests you are far more likely to catch it if you are vaccinated than if you are not. There are medical studies that back this theory up too.
I agree you are more likely to end up in hospital/die if you are unvaccinated but thats where you need to factor in risk on a personal level. Everyone is different and should do what is right according age and health etc.
I won't get into that well known anti viral that has been demonised as an alternative to further help reduce risk against hospitalisation.

“Does no one look at the current fear led booster campaign and think its all a bit crazy?”

no. i look at the data. it makes perfect sense to me.
i have no issues with the rapid roll-out of boosters at exactly the right time (just before the peak indoor winter mixings/infctions).
i don’t see it ‘led by fear’ either, its a public health issue and the response was appropriate. or did i miss the fag packet diseased bloody lung posters?

I hope so 2. But i think the current climate is forcing ppl to pick sides and once that is done its not easy for everyone to later admit you perhaps slipped up in your judgment or that your beliefs have changed.

Im like this as well even tho i know about it and try not to be like this i can still see myself at times clinging on to something that i may not agree with anymore for the sake of not beeing wrong or similar. Its not so much a thought through desiscion as it just seem to happen for me :/ i try to comfort myself with that i can at least see it when i reflect. My gf is frustratingly good at pointing this out for me..

I think i've covered this quite a bit but...The definition of a vaccine is something that provides immunity against a disease. These don't do that! reduction in hospitalisation is fine and useful for the vulnerable but not necessarily the right choice long term for the young and healthy.

The flu jab is only offered to the old and vulnerable which reiterates my point. This is off the top of my head so might be wrong but I think the flu jab only offers protection for about 3 months and even then it is only about 30% effective.

This to my mind is a misrepresentation of the data. The numbers are unadjusted firstly, that aside a positive test prevents an NHS staff member from working as they have to isolate. It is not the same as whether they are fit to work.
If you were to take fit to work being in or out of hospital your hypothesis falls apart. Which is why I suspect you only showed your crop to try to substantiate your argument about vaccination.

Its incredibly hard to be on the "other side", I'm willing to lose my job over it because I truly believe its the right side. Not just for myself but for those around me.

I hear you. Anyone certain of anything is always suspect in my non-peer reviewed book.

I am saying that after vaccine efficacy has rapidly waned the data suggests you are far more likely to catch it if you are vaccinated than if you are not.

Are these the same studies your posted before and people rightly pointed out you failed to understand. They showed that if you were vaccinated then you were more likely to catch omicron compared to other variants but still less likely overall to catch anything, I think you ignored that and disappeared for a little while until you found something else that you think backs up your point of view.

I would argue that if you test positive for coronavirus you are not fit to work as an frontline NHS staff member surely?
I fully understand the data is unadjusted but its the same across multiple countries and the numbers increase proportionately in relation to last vaccination date. Trending data is hard to repute.

eh? The reports posted above are overall cases of all variants. so no.

The whole leaky vaccine bollocks is a bit daft too, maybe there should've been a more concerted global effort to vaccinate everyone, rather than now having to concentrate vaccines as boosters because the leaks will have been from unvaccinated people in vaccinated populations and probably moreso populations that aren't able to access vaccinations.

Not those, last time you graced us with your presence, maybe it was someone else.

seriously? Do you still think the vaccines stop you catching it? come on!

Individually, somewhat, as a population, much more so.

Again you are changing your argument, without addressing my point. I tried, I give up.
I sincerely hope you don’t loose your job.

seriously? Do you still think the vaccines stop you catching it? come on!

Yes, vaccines do reduce your chances of catching it, and do reduce the severity of the outcome if you do catch it.

The unadjusted data you posted shows that to be the case in the non working age populations.

In the working age populations there are major differences in the cohorts to make blind comparisons risky and erroneous. But it seems you are willfully ignoring this.

the flu jab is given to schoolchildren in this country as well as free to the over 50’s lots of workplaces do it for free (for any age)

the only option for the unvaccinated is protection by natural infection which carries it’s own risks, even then you are more likely to catch it again than if you were vaccinated.
then there is the other societal issues of being infected as we are seeing play out right now, imagine if hardly anyone was vaccinated? the US is about to show us what happens when your vaccination is patchy.

I guess I don't get what you are trying to say.

haven't we already seen this in SA?

If you can’t see how your crop of that data effects how it’s read it’s a totally lost cause.

Has there been any suggestion of having at least a-symptomatic NHS staff continuing to work?
Given they could work with infected patients and with staff with PPE.
Would the logistics be more complicated than any gains?

i'm not willfully ignoring anything, there are so many factors at play. I'm not fully up to date with the 4th jab timelines but many older people were given 3 doses and then a booster. Also many of the 80+ unvaccinated will be end of life patients in hospitals and care homes so not exactly sat safe at home alone.

The definition of a vaccine is something that provides immunity against a disease: But then you go and say the flu jab isn't perfect.

But we still give it to certain groups (older/some health issues) Em, does that not defeat your own argument? :)

RE not vaccinating younger people: You are not mentioning long covid, which doesn't happen much at all with the flu (post viral immune system problems can happen). And that happens with all ages. Some people get it for years.

As for wanting to lose your job, I am hoping it won't come to that. I have to say I don't agree with mandatory vaccination for work (testing/masking yes...)

But what is it you want to see? Just...part vaccination? Or one jab for 90% of people and boosters only?

What is your ideal outcome? (me? getting tired of being unable to travel to mainland Europe where family is, Brexit doesn't help there... I'd be happy if the rules relax. But with only 83% of people with one jab/ lack of tests / people behaving as if there's no virus EVEN with free tests...I don't know)

What are you will to do? Are you ok with masks/lfts?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/03/covid-positive-nurses-are-working-in-nsw-hospitals-due-to-severe-staffing-shortages

Yes of course thats possible but to me its complete madness that vaccinated covid positive staff are working in hospitals when unvaccinated Covid negative staff are fired and not allowed to work.

Ha, that idd is ill give u that.