Hiking, Scrambling, Mountaineering, and Climbing

Watched 14 Peaks last night. Absolutely mind boggling acheivement, and worth a watch, but I don't think it really conveys to the average viewer how difficult a challenge it was. I also wish that Jimmy Chin could find someone else to be a talking head in movies that he produces. I think he's great, but there must be other people who can talk about mountaineering just as eloquently.

Didn’t know this thread existed. Been hiking a lot recently. It snowed in the San Gabriel Mountains here in LA this week so I made sure I got out. Used spikes for the first time and they were great. Wouldn’t have got past kilometer five without them. Made me want to try ski touring - big time.

4 Attachments

Ohhhh. Someone else told me about this earlier. Just resubbed to Netflix to watch.

I'm on the lookout for a Garmin 64s if anyone happens to be looking to n-1 their gps units.

Oh nice. I really like the sound of that. What is accommodation like?

How many miles/did you cover? I don’t want to be biting off more than 15 a day in future.

Around 20-30km per day, most days were 20-25 or less though. It’s totally manageable and the route kind of dictates it. Only a couple days felt long. It was ‘easy’ as hikes go, minus the knee injury from pushing too hard on the downhills.

Albergues were cheap and plentiful, apparently it’s the warmer seasons in peak when you fight for a bed. We had no issue in any town. There were ample alternatives and private places along the route.

Has anyone tried zero drop barefoot style boots for hiking? Last few Munros I've done I've had absolutely terrible knee pain on the descent, most times my right knee but last one the other week both knees, I was in total agony, people heard me sobbing in pain from a distance and offered to help me, but I didn't really know what they could have done and I just opted to hobble out, it took me fucking ages. Bless Mrs EB for being there she was an absolute angel. And thank God for walking poles.

I've since discovered that it is IT band syndrome, and now embarking on stretches and the relevant exercises but wondering if these types of shoes/boots might help (Summer only probably). I've read a few things that they take some time to get used to but do help some people. I'm a little sceptical really, but if anyone has any experience I'd be grateful for your thoughts?

I use zero drop (not barefoot) shoes for running. They still have a thicker sole so some protection against rocks etc. I didn't really transition into them, just bought a pair and started running. As it's winter you probably wouldn't look too out of place wearing them on non-hiking walks to the shops etc if you wanted to get used to them a bit first.

Last few Munros I've done I've had absolutely terrible knee pain on the descent, most times my right knee but last one the other week both knees, I was in total agony, people heard me sobbing in pain from a distance and offered to help me, but I didn't really know what they could have done and I just opted to hobble out, it took me fucking ages.

I've had this a few times over the years. For me, its caused by tight ITBs pulling my patellar out of track. Or aruguably, weak leg muscles allowing my ITBs to pull my patellar out of track. Twice weekly leg strength sessions and learning to stretch properly was the solution to my particular root cause.

I have bitter memories of a 1500m descent in Austria where I had to stop to hold fistfuls of snow against my knee to get some relief from the pain. I have never felt so desperate...exhausted and in pain with hours of descending left to go. Its not fun.

I had this running, and switching to barefoot did help - but mostly by forcing me to change my running technique to something more much more stable. So I'd guess it's unlikely to be a quick fix.

Not necessarily a solution, but loosely related: in the summer I switched from my boots to approach shoes in the cuillins and have only worn boots when it's weather driven since - the lighter load and free-er movement has made long days much much easier.

strength sessions

Is that gym using the quads machines? Or something different?

It really is minus fun. Although I do now know that you can use walking poles as makeshift 'foam' (ha!) rollers to ease things somewhat

Thanks. Yeah I probably would take this approach to be honest, to get used to them

Yeah I do try and use my trail shoes but last few have been fairly full on ice and snow above 600m or thereabouts with microspikes in use (not full crampon conditions though)

I have done Winter Munros in trail shoes before, but I've lost my nerve a bit (only got back into doing them again this past Summer and up to now)

When I had issues the physio had me doing endless body weight squats so was no need for the gym, assuming it's patella related

I run in zero drop trainers and use barefoot shoes most of the year (bar deep winter; not warm enough) and barefoot shoes are my first choice for walking off road. The ability to feel the ground underneath your feet is lovely. That said I don't do serious hiking/mountaineering though.
You can get reduced Vibobarefoot sure on this site including hiking boots.

https://www.revivo.com/

Inov8 Terra Ultra by any chance? I nearly invested but went for more Trail Talons instead.

Is that gym using the quads machines? Or something different?

It really is minus fun. Although I do now know that you can use walking poles as makeshift 'foam' (ha!) rollers to ease things somewhat

Actually most of the improvements came from simple physio exercises at home, followed by a routine of squates and lunges (both unweighted) at home. No more than 15 minutes a day in total.

I've moved on to doing more intense weighted leg work at home and in the gym but that is because i'm training for something specific.

Obviously we have no idea if you problem is similar to mine, but I would highly recommend doing something like this once a day and seeing if it helps. This routine is very close to what my physio had me doing...

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/knee-exercises-for-runners/

I'd highly recommend trying it first before tinkering with your footwear.

Edit: Forgot to say, my wife had really bad descending problems in the past too an a similar approach worked for her. And as you say, using poles effectively is also important.

I enjoyed reading this paper yesterday https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/docs/loewenstein/mountaineering.pdf

On the application of mountain climbing to economic utility theory

Just to add, I personally found that doing exercises like that helped really quickly as part of the weakness and imbalance I had was simply down to the amount of desk work I do and various muscle groups "going to sleep" a bit. I noticed an improvement after only a week or so.

Thanks for that...looks like a good read!

Yes. Well, similar to above, zero drop but not barefoot. I use Altra Lone Peak 5's and I absolutely love them. The shape of them is the main reason I use them, but I've started to just wear them as every day shoes now because I find them so comfortable.

I have done some big ol' hikes in them - like 30km/1500-2000m of elevation/descent - and it's my legs that hurt at the end, not my feet.

Look at the shape of these things. If you have even remotely wide feet they're amazing. Come in a wide size, too. And also a waterproof boot version.

I think I'd stick with Boots too, not sure I'd fancy skating close to crampons in shoes - and I better reign my neck in on offering internet advice!

Best of luck healing up!

They look great!

Speaking of mountaineering. I had a bad accident almost three weeks ago where I lost my footing and slid down an ice chute for maybe 40 metres. It was fucking terrifying and easily the closest I've ever come to dying. I was just coming out of the tree line so there was nothing to really stop me. Fortunately I eventually hit a rock after seeing my life flash before my eyes. I was by myself in a wilderness area at 2500m and by the time I'd got back onto the trail, it was too dangerous to turn back (the descent was too steep), so I had to keep going up... which then led to another descent (took 20 mins in the dry but 2.5 hours on the ice and soft snow) and then another ascent (took 10 mins in the dry but 1 hour in the snow).

Difficult to describe the trail tbh, but constantly changing snow conditions and big elevation gains and losses in quick succession made things really hard. I did the same trail sans-snow a week prior and it took my 6 hours. This time it took me 11.5 hours. Had spikes and snow shoes but realistically needed crampons as well due to how much the conditions changed. The trail was at a 45 degree angle because of snow drift and neither my spikes or snow shoes were really any use. It was like walking on a huge pile of granulated sugar. Then ice. Then granulated sugar. Then deep snow. Then granulated sugar. So instead of following the trail, I had to just go straight up the 45 degree slope instead because the crampon part of my snow shoe would at least grip if I was going straight up and not using the snow shoes at a 45 degree angle. I had to use trees as anchor points so that if I slipped, there would at least be a tree to stop me from falling. I sat under trees for over an hour that day, contemplating life and waiting for snow to get sun exposure to stop it from being as icy.

I almost SOSd on my InReach at least twice. That weekend, four people were airlifted out of the same area. I felt so prepared too. So stupid of me to have been there alone in hindsight, but lesson learnt. The mountain doesn't give a shit about you and I shan't be doing it again.

Did this to my hands - photos taken about five hours after it happened and then this morning. Fortunately I've regained use of them, but for the first 5 days the pain was unbearable. I have a high pain tolerance and the healing process was by far the most painful thing I've ever experienced.

Don't click this link containing mid-healing photos if you're squeamish. It's gross.

4 Attachments

Holy shit dude. Thanks for sharing that. Always sobering to be reminded how quickly things can go wrong for somebody who is experienced and well equipped.

A good friend of ours who is an Austrian guide we sometimes climb with, also works as a rescue climber for the local air ambulance. He told us some stories about people sliding on glaciers that would make you wince. He reckoned he'd never seen road rash so bad on a motorbike accident patient. Sounds like you were really lucky. Glad you're ok.