Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Also we're way off the herd immunity levels of troll-ignoring required for trolls to fail to gain any traction.

Not everyone with a different view is a troll. They may be wrong, but to assume that they are being wrong deliberately to wind you up is a bit self involved.

I agree, but you only have to review their posting history to get an idea of how they've communicated in the past. The troll worthy comments are there, lodged within the logorrhea.

I'm not trolling, I like bikes and I cycle. I just have different views to you on how to tackle a corona virus pandemic.
Sadly all critical thought has been wiped from every mainstream avenue and this thread shows just how the that one single narrative has been lapped up and baked in despite being 3 jabs deep and a 4th on the horizon.
I am open to all discussion so please feel free to tell me how you successfully mass vaccinate against a Corona virus with a leaky jab and a super narrow fast waning immunity.

Okay, definitely trolling.

The problem is that all of the endemic coronaviruses have a track record of evolving to evade immunity. Its just this is the first time we've been able to see it happen with vaccine acquired immunity.

There are no good solutions.

Better vaccines?

"thoughts and prayers" until such time that Covid19 becomes much less pathogenic (or much more pathogenic)?

Lockdowns cause harm, so the best we can do until either of the above happens is have vaccines + sensible light touch restrictions (ffp2 masks, strict controls for mass events etc etc) to reduce the need to have lockdowns combined with pouring massive amounts of money into the NHS for recruitment, training and possibly even some kind of incentive scheme to try to attract some of the international doctors and nurses who have left?

One thing is clear, herd immunity is unlikely to be the solution. Even if it was possible, the long covid cost would be too great.

I am open to all discussion so please feel free to tell me how you successfully mass vaccinate against a Corona virus with a leaky jab and a super narrow fast waning immunity.

That's the best that is currently on offer. It's an imperfect solution but it's better than not vaccinating at all.

Your argument seems to just be an example of the Nirvana fallacy.

What's your alternative?

I'm getting a bit concerned about the recent outbreak of good faith engagement with obvious trolls.

'Tis the season to be jolly.

Trollolololol.

Offer the vaccine only to the elderly and vulnerable. Encourage or give free vitamin D and zinc to all and then monitor hospital capacities bringing in physical restrictions where needed.
It's sad to see so many young healthy people lining up for these jabs with little to no understanding of them.
The immune system is an incredibly complex bit of kit and it's not just about having a load of short lived igA antibodies that wane after a few weeks. The gov data is there for you to see that clearly shows after a short period you are more likely to catch C19 if you are vaccinated compared to if you are not. You can argue all you like that it's dirty data etc etc but please do explain why it trends upwards to further from the jab you get.

pouring massive amounts of money into the NHS for recruitment, training and possibly even some kind of incentive scheme to try to attract some of the international doctors and nurses who have left?

And some new hospitals (or expand existing ones). Same with medical schools etc. Probably takes a decade to make a significant difference.

The gov data is there for you to see that clearly shows after a short period you are more likely to catch C19 if you are vaccinated compared to if you are not.

I haven't seen that data. Do you have a link?

There isn't very good evidence vitamin D helps =if your levels are already good= there is research I think in Finland but it has not yet concluded.

It's sad to see so many young healthy people lining up for these jabs with little to no understanding of them: Well, it is a bit more nuanced one you are younger yes. The risk of death is surely lower, and as a young man there is a risk of myocarditis.

But there is also the long covid risk. ONS estimates aren't so great, 1% at least, of course usually it fades after a while, but some people still cannot work after a year. Now it is a low risk, but I don't fancy that myself...

To me it was simple: AZ has a risk of blood clotting, we know a rough figure. Covid has a risk of long covid =untreatable= and death (for me probably roughly the same as the jab) so adding it up, I rather had a jab I know where I am rather than a guesstimate on Covid.

.

Age dependent on the risks of vaxx v non vaxx as @JWestland noted above.

It's sad to see so many young healthy people lining up for these jabs with little to no understanding of them: Well, it is a bit more nuanced one you are younger yes. The risk of death is surely lower, and as a young man there is a risk of myocarditis.

Apparently for young men there is some evidence that the Moderna vaccine has a higher risk of myocarditis compared to getting Covid but not Pfizer. The risk of getting myocarditis from Covid appears higher than getting it from Pfizer and Covid has a number of other unpleasant things you might not want to have.

(source Dr Rohin Francis, consultant cardiologist and YouTuber - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iABaxRWGxk
).

The UK governemnt concluded a vitamin D study over 6 months ago and they still haven't released the results. If this was a study on one of the vaccines it would have been published and all over the news in seconds.

I'm on mobile so it's hard to pull up but have a search through the last 6 months of the UK govs surveillance reports. Someone has done some nice graphs but I couldn't point you to where they are right now.

I think myocarditis might be the one to blow the head of this thing especially in young boys. I haven't looked into it yet so don't know the truth of it but I read of a private school in the us who have seen myocarditis in 1 in 92 boys which is completely insane.

I'm glad you removed the comment about smallpox, it's such a silly comparison.
Also nearly all other vaccines on the market have long term robust safety data available.

I haven't seen that data. Do you have a link?

I wouldn't bother, its already been shown to be a poor interpretation and a perfect example of falling for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

That said, the claim that you are more likely to get Omicron if you are vaccinated is circulating widely on Twitter if you did want to find it. Yes, the data shows that, but only because the data is being abused.

I think myocarditis might be the one to blow the head of this thing especially in young boys. I haven't looked into it yet so don't know the truth of it but I read of a private school in the us who have seen myocarditis in 1 in 92 boys which is completely insane.

I can't find anything that high, or the graphs showing a higher chance of catching Covid 'a short period' after a vaccine. Send them when you aren't on a mobile.

Apparently those that did get myocarditis after a vaccine got it soon after (eg a week) and recovered quickly. The recovery bit seems fairly key as many with Covid are finding recovery elusive.

And I agree with you, but also understand people can be hesitant.

My son had 1 jab, he hasn't had his booster. The risk increases with jab 2.

But then omicron spreads like wild fire...and they give Pfizer here. So seems it's the best thing to do.

Rohin's channel is great I know it already :) edit Rohin not robin duck autocorrect.

But then your argument is one of "I don't trust the government" not "There's no data yet".

Sure, it feels it's less urgent. No doubt. But vaccination stopped smallpox and polio not vitamins.

I looked into vitamin D before. There is some proof giving it to people in ICU works.

As preventive for any disease / cancer it's hit and miss. Some people say government blood levels are too low, we should always take it.

But there's no hard proof at all. Unless your blood levels are really too low.
Mate of ours felt rubbish, his blood levels were low, doc put him on vitamin D he's ok now.

I take cod liver oil but I found omega 3 helps my brain / reduces discomfort in my gammy hip. My husband takes it, his levels were lowish.

But I don't expect on routine vitamin D to be a miracle.

Now in the USA but D fortification is standard, perhaps someone drew conclusions from a study there?

That's the best that is currently on offer. It's an imperfect solution but it's better than not vaccinating at all.

That is it.

Would go further and say this is the best we have.