Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but we might be in a position where healthcare is not for all, like we had in the first wave.

A good example is my neighbour, Anne, who had severe Covid in the first wave (and has COPD), ox sats went down to 70% but couldn't get admitted to hospital because not enough beds. She was told that she was unlikely to survive and that she should prepare to die at home. She gathered her kids round and drifted off for 72 hours. As it happens, she somehow pulled through (after eventually being admitted and spending some time in a coma. )

I feel for people like Anne.

(heavily abridged story btw, lots of nuance lost there, but the headline of the story is representative).

Yeah, that fucking sucks and I'd agree that if you've got two people lined up waiting for the same bed for the same Covid based treatments choose the vaccinated one, practically I don't see anyone getting thrown out of a bed for someone else or denied treatment whilst waiting for the possibility of a vaccinated person needing it.

Limiting healthcare based on having been jabbed is dangerous. Once you start basing triage during crises on who should get what help when, the next step after things get back to normal is to look at smokers, people with alcohol problems, etc

Our healthcare is based around everyone getting access, and the other people sucking up the disproportionate costs associated with when people make life 'choices'.

Aaaand pinged. Fucksticks. PCR booked for 4pm at a drive in site.

She was told that she was unlikely to survive and that she should prepare to die at home.

Awful

Our healthcare is based around everyone getting access

If, on the other hand, you simply don't have enough resources for everyone you may well have to triage based on likely outcome. And people who have been vaccinated are likely to have a better outcome, even if they do require hospitalisation.

Limiting healthcare based on having been jabbed is dangerous. Once you start basing the triage on who should get what help when, the next step is then to look at smokers, people with alcohol problems, etc

Good points

Awful

Yup, it was the third ambulance crew who suggested she get her affairs in order and say goodbye to her (adult) kids. She then fell into a deep sleep for three days, soiling her bed while she slept. Her son did his best to drip some water into her mouth. And when she woke up her sats had risen and a bed in hospital had freed up. A month later, she was discharged.

Its a painful story to hear. In positive news, Anne is back to playing tennis and has no long term complications.

How do the exposure notifications actually work? I just got the ping about half an hour ago, looking at the settings on my phone, the timestamp is 13:14 (about 40 min ago), with 17686 keys, 1 match. Is that the exposure? What time period is that from as I thought it was 15 minutes in close proximity to a positive case, and I've not spent 15 minutes with anyone but my wife or daughter in weeks. I've been to tesco, and driven my daughter to nursery. But even in Tesco, I would not have been close to the same person for more than a few seconds.

The timestamp was when I just happened to take my daughter out in the pushchair for a walk around the block to get her to sleep.

Singapore is doing this

Is that the exposure?

My understanding is that the match represents the moment that one of your prior contacts reported their positive test, rather than the exposure itself.

The only time I have been pinged during this pandemic was (probably) as a result of having a drive through McDonalds and the people in the car next to us (probably) testing positive a few days later.

I say probably, but on the day in question the only time we had been outside was for that cheeky Big Mac

How far back does it look? Really struggling to think of when I was near someone for 15min exclusively.

14 days.

I just got the ping about half an hour ago, looking at the settings on my phone, the timestamp is 13:14 (about 40 min ago), with 17686 keys, 1 match. Is that the exposure?

I think that is the time the database of infected phone ids was downloaded. Your phone then checks to see if it has seen any. The exposure you are getting a ping from was a few days ago as someone has to have a positive PCR and stick it in the app.

It could be a neighbour, bluetooth travels through walls.

True, and that is what was happening in Italy during wave 1 (the triage on likely outcome - they did not have to take into consideration vaccination status), absolutely awful.

But triage during crises like that is slightly different from saying that regardless of circumstances certain people won't get the help they need (in this case the unjabbed for covid, but once that can of worms is opened a smoker would get no help when lung cancer, an alcoholic would get no help with liver complications, an lfgss member is a cyclist so no help with collar bone fractures).

If only the Raedwalds of this world would get jabbed so we don't have the situation where we don't have enough capacity for people like Anne...

To be clear, I was only suggesting making vaxed people have priority in emergency triage situations rather than sending them to the back for all healthcare.

I was only suggesting making vaxed people have priority in emergency triage situations

Would this hypothetical policy apply to those unable to take the vaccine or those who choose not to take it?

I got that, apologies if it came across as if I was suggesting otherwise.
I'll amend my post

Could be implemented by countries with insurance based healthcare? If the insurance providers decide that covid care can only be provided if you’ve been vaccinated?

Unlucky Doom sayer. :oP

93K

dammit, not even that close really, happy to be wrong.. i guess

Last 3 days...78..88..93

That's not doubling.

Fingers crossed.

Would this hypothetical policy apply to those unable to take the vaccine or those who choose not to take it?

Not sure you even need to ask that. Of course the small number of people with genuine exemptions would not be part of that.

Anyway, its clearly an unpalatable idea. Its just what isn't at this point?

As for people who believe they can't take it, I wonder what percentage actually can't?

Is it like gluten intolerance where the actual percentage of people who have it is tiny compared to the percentage that think they do?

ha! just spotted them, yeah fuck the UK