Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Still up in the air about whether to go and see my folks. If it was just a drive, I would feel better about it. But there's a 1hr flight in the middle.

I'm currently on the "go" side, but very willing to resort to plan B.

Reasons to go;

We will lateral flow test every morning from now until we get back.
ms_com and I work from home, she has stopped all office visits for the last 3 weeks.
We're both triple jabbed, as are my parents.
mini_com does go to a childminder, but it is a small unit without a big rotating cast like a nursery or school. They had some scares early on in the pandemic, but nothing in the last while.
We will be driving to the airport this side, have 3 seats in a row to ourselves, getting a hire car on the other side as opposed to public transport. The are bus journeys in London longer than this flight.
Even when we get there, my parent's house is big enough (rural NI, not golf club) that we would have separate rooms, bathrooms and even floors, should one of us happen to test positive.
The biggest reason for me, my dad has MS. While he is not technically immuno-comprimised, I don't know how many more Christmases he has left. I could just wait another couple of months and go in Feb or March, but this trip/time of year means a lot to him as he missed the last Christmas with his granddaughter. And she is now of the age where she knows what's going on.

Even with all that, I still feel like a cunt.

I find the personal choice argument quite compelling

I don't even understand the argument.

They told us to stay the fuck away.

But was that anything to do with covid?

I don't even understand the argument.

I'm not exactly opposed to vaccine mandates, they just make me feel very uneasy.

Governments being able mandate something injected into your arm is a precedent. In the same way that the government created a precedent to strip people of their citizenship extrajudicially when they did that to Shemima Begum.

The only possible objection to vaccine mandates I can find, is the possibility of the precedent being used to mandate actual invasions of our bodies for less good reasons in the future.

Do I trust this government to mandate safe vaccines during this pandemic? Yes. Do I trust future governments to use this power wisely? No. That said, if the only way out of this is to vaccinate everybody then lets fucking do it. Door to door if need be.

I appreciate I am stretching so far on this I could snap.

You are super careful, that's all you can do. Jabbed, private travel, testing...why feel bad?

You are worried even with all this he may catch COVID badly?

I understand the arguments against vaccine mandates, although I'm far from convinced by them as I don't believe that they would set a precedent.

What I don't understand is the argument that having a Covid vaccine is a 'personal choice', therefore anyone who choses not to is beyond reproach because it's a 'personal choice' and should be treated no differently to people who have done the right thing and got one, which appears to be a popular if, to my mind, rather mystifying argument.

yeah hilarious.

who are you again?

What I don't understand is the argument that having a Covid vaccine is a 'personal choice', therefore anyone who choses not to is beyond reproach because it's a 'personal choice' and should be treated no differently to people who have done the right thing and got one, which appears to be a popular if, to my mind, rather mystifying argument.

It's the same old shite that you see recycled in all kinds of arguments about censorship and choice now. I cAN dO wHaT I wAnT!

To an extent, yes, but not if it harms others. You also have to accept that your choices might have consequences.

Surely the simple way out of this is to give vaccinated people priority for Covid treatment?

Just an admirer.

In the same way

I mean, for many reasons, it's not.

But it doesn't matter anyway. Because, and I use this term entirely unironically, of sovereignty.

Unless you are just comparing the Govt.'s ability to make you feel uneasy - in which case, sure.

The irony, of course, being that the intersection between those that purport to oppose vaccine mandates, and those that wholeheartedly support removal of statehood for brown people "undesirables", is pretty huge.

You also have to accept that your choices might have consequences.: No vax or negative LFT, no fun for you.

But I am having my doubts when it comes to mandatory vaccination for work.

And reading the carehome staff that quit their job over vaccine mandates, it can be more complex than "selfish prat".

okay another counterpoint; name a country with similar socio economics and population density that you think has handled it better? genuine question; even i am struggling, you either get low vax countries that go in lockdown constantly or the UK model, vax and let it run rampant.

the only flaw in thatcherite model of “personal responsibility” is that it just turns everybody against each other

Depends what your measure is I guess;

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Surely the simple way out of this is to give vaccinated people priority for Covid treatment?

This seems worse to me than vaccine mandates, I've no problem withholding access to pubs or clubs or whatever if you choose not to vaccinate or test first, but healthcare should very much be for all no matter what, even if you're a stupid cunt.

at the risk of sounding golf club/tory; maybe GDP (sorry)

i guess France os maybe comparable. And a success compared to the UK?

maybe i am wrong but i look at my home country and the failures are massive in comparison and i wonder which country has handled it better and still is a “global economy” (🤢)

Yeah I've begrudgingly come around on this as well. That said, I'd happily see any antivax clowns who come out the other end of an ICU ward slapped with a whopping fucking bill for Thier stay.

Pretty sure my bro's have no problems with undesirables. From what I can tell they view the mandating of it as a "slippery path", the potential precedent that stonehedge eloquently alluded to.

slapped with a whopping fucking bill for their stay

Do you reckon that could happen?

Germany….Japan?

okay another counterpoint; name a country with similar socio economics and population density that you think has handled it better? genuine question; even I am struggling, you either get low vax countries that go in lockdown constantly or the UK model, vax and let it run rampant.

A good point well made. Shall try and remember to keep it up my sleeve for any festive debates.

People complaining "why do I need to get a booster"

I get it that it's not ideal... queuing, another potential several days, the hassle and time. But honestly, the flu is the same! Viruses mutate.

Like with "the vaccines don't work" can you not google or listen to the non rude ppl on social media that have had to explain this for over a year now... :)

Do you reckon that could happen?

No. Not in the UK.

Feels that my decision to sack the footy off for a while was a good one.

But was that anything to do with COVID?

Germany

Surprisingly low excess deaths, despite the abysmal vax rates. We've been nowhere near as free as the UK, but for the most part it's just been masking up and 3G checks.