EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

For balance my wife and I moved to France just before the withdrawal agreement came to an end, and I very quickly settled and decided that I never want to come back to the UK. I still haven't changed my mind, especially after returning to the UK pack up the rest of our belongings for the removers. If Brexit made me want to leave the UK, Covid took away everything that would have made me stay.

OK French life is bureaucratic and people who run businesses don't seem to like opening them much, and I am still waiting for my French driving licence, and it's pissed down constantly in 'the second-sunniest place in France' this year, but it's largely a much kinder and more socialist society, I'm settled, working again and the future we had planned for ourselves is once again possible.

No mention of the utter shitness if the leave campaign and broken promises.

The UK isn't of course all bad. I love to visit London it's a great city with its own unique feeling. (Not sure I could live there!!!)

I'm happy enough in Northern Ireland, but it's the landscape and the people and nuts as our local government may be, England Tories are going all authoritarian.

If it wasn't for family circumstances we'd have fucked off due to Brexit.

Years of "it's cos of you guys the UK is broken" can get to fuck.

But now I'm here so let's see what I can do for society. Or as it's called here; TEH KHomHunity!!!!! ;)

Very happy to hear it's going well! :)

I should note, if one or both of us could magically speak German, or Dutch, or Spanish (the list goes on) well enough to be confident we could thrive (with one small and one very small child in tow) we'd most likely have stayed EU-side for sure.

sending it to my restaurant.

#humblebrag

Personally I find the autocratic tendencies more concerning than the racism. But they both come from the same place, the government. Generally the people are good and nice.

To be clear Hungary is not a utopia far fucking from it. And yeah your friend is probably right also, Orban and Fidesz have a worrying grip and it may be worse than here BUT with the EU membership we just feel it’s probably a better bet.

It’s all risk and chance.

It’s complicated as you’ll know and be experiencing.

School curriculum isn’t an issue per se for us as our daughter will be at a private English speaking school when/if we live there again. But I appreciate we’re privileged in that both of us have good salaries in Hungary. Healthcare is provided privately by my company to a very high level, benefits of being an American owned company… one of the few benefits.

Socially she prefers Hungary as she never feels she’s been accepted here whereas I don’t feel that way there. She still gets “oh your English is so good” despite it being fluent for a long long time and having a degree studied in English it’s very fucking condescending and the go back home shit I got said to me the other by merely speaking Hungarian really drills it home.

Hungary is bad, pretty fucking bad at things tbh but long term I feel my family is in a better place there.

Am I a negative harbinger of doom? Maybe but I’m happy with my reasoning.

OK French life is bureaucratic and people who run businesses don't seem to like opening them much, and I am still waiting for my French driving licence, and it's pissed down constantly in 'the second-sunniest place in France' this year, but it's largely a much kinder and more socialist society, I'm settled, working again and the future we had planned for ourselves is once again possible.

How did you find the language barrier? It's something we really want to do but my French is rusty at best. I'm happy to work hard at getting good but reading A Year In Provence has left me with a fear of the grammatical awkwardnesses.

Well, how are you generally with languages? As you're a musician, your musical ear should help you in being able to pick up spoken everyday French, including a good accent, pretty quickly. Spoken French is fairly different from what you may have learned in school (although it varies considerably between the Paris banlieue and la France profonde), but the basics are pretty simple, and France has the not inconsiderable advantage that they don't speak English there as well as they do in Germany (although that's obviously also changed a lot with the Internet), so people might be more willing to help you improve than elsewhere where they'd rather practise their English. I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you needed French for your job; that would obviously require much greater proficiency.

Don't worry about the language - you'll pick it up quickly (again). I studied at school (D in A-level) and then didn't really speak it for 20+ years... I moved here 5 years ago and now I'm native (I just got my nationality) and working in highly technical areas where communication skills are essential (medicine and research). I made a big effort when I got here to not meet English-speaking people, instead trying to speak only with people in French. It was super hard!! And quite lonely too... Now I'm much better so I'm trying to expand my friend circle (as most of mine were back in London, difficult to see with all the travel shenanigans associated with the pandemic) hence have been branching out again to other ex-pats. And if I lived my life over, I'd totally do it again, I love it here and a recent visit back to Blighty only confirmed that to me. Hence, I'm heading south for winter to spend on my own in the sun (and with some friends) rather than going home to do the family thing. Yes, my folks are disappointed, but really I find the UK too scary at the moment.... I do know there are good things there too, though ;-)

(obviously that's in response to @ReekBlefs but just following the thread in replying...)

I can report that my year of Duolingo has a) dramatically improved my GCSE grade C French but b) the starting position (see a) was very very low.

My own French is GCSE grade C plus French movies and music. Frankly it wasn’t good enough, and I’m really not good talking to new people, even in English. Round here spoken French is a patois with a strong injection of Occitan. Speaking to a Parisian is so much easier.

But luckily my wife is fluent and did all the talking at first. Plus there are a lot of native English speakers here so I wasn’t isolated. It’s been a year and I can basically read anything in French now, I can mostly follow French TV and films with French subtitles rather than English. I’m getting more confident in spoken French and have had successful conversations with French people. Though I can do a good accent I find it better not to as if I do speak too well the reply is too fast for me to understand!

I have 4 years before I have to be good enough to pass the citizenship exam. I think I’ll make it. I know people who have been here for decades who don’t speak a word. Life is so much shitter for them.

I love it here and a recent visit back to Blighty only confirmed that to me

I don't live in France but I've been in Luxembourg for 10 years and if I leave here, it won't be to move back to the UK. I enjoy visiting the UK but the draw "home" has vanished and it's just a place I lived now.

My French has got back to a level I'm happy with and I'm starting to learn Luxembourgish, less to be able to integrate (the locals all speak French and German and most speak English) but to more be a part of the country. It's not an easy language for me but having some German helps a bit.

For @ReekBlefs - I've spoken French since I was a toddler so for me it was a case of learning grown-up French rather than learning from school-level. That said, immersion does a lot to improve things quickly. I'd never had to deal with doctors, government, legal stuff but the vocab comes quickly if you HAVE to use it daily. I read the free daily newspaper when I'm at work as it also helps (google translate is one of the most used apps on my phone).

a lot of things need to slot into place

Garage doors?

More work based tbh, but the garages themselves will certainly help from a storage perspective, no matter the doors that are on them.

It was a bad joke

google translate is one of the most used apps on my phone

for me, it's deepl.com which I find much better/more accurate than google

I’m just doing single words rather than sentences and the camera translations save me from my shitty typing :)

Appreciate this, and @d0cA, @bq, @atz. My family have lived in London for the last 300 years - no-one in my family speaks a second language and we're all very British but I'm not sure how much longer I can stay here and I want to live somewhere people are kind to each other - the language barrier is the thing I've been most nervous about. Lots to think about but less scary, seemingly, than I was worried about.

I use a tutor on italki. I do 1h every day and then more on top with flashcards/grammar. Depends how you learn, I lean by just doing.

It’s been a year and I can basically read anything in French now, I can mostly follow French TV and films with French subtitles rather than English

That's really good work, congrats.

the language barrier is the thing I've been most nervous about.

That's why I'm stuck in the UK, it's a language barrier that's extremely hard to learn, and I'm still struggling with English despite being born in London like you.

An interesting bit of news;

Non-Irish EU citizens living in the Republic will have to apply online for pre-travel clearance from the UK in order to cross the border on the island of Ireland, under proposed new British immigration laws.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/1209/1265709-travel-ireland/

If non EU nationals already have to apply for this, it is making is consistent.

However, people in the buses from ROI to NI are already subject to racial checks (non-white people being checked, but whites are not) by the Gardai, and it is also not really enforceable as-is.

So, what is the point of this bar hardtalk? Won't stop people smuggling...

meanwhile, getting some roof vents is turning into A Journey thanks to Brexit, no we don't ship to NI anymore etc. Might end up getting them from mainland EU/ROI the way this is going!