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  • Sure but Brexit voters caused loss of rights for us EU citizens here and Brits abroad.

    They don't care mostly. Barely anybody said anything.

    Now I do think media and politics play a big role in encouraging this, and many seem unaware of the origin of their feelings or thoughts. So they cannot distance themselves.

    And how many voters pure denied problems cos that's just humans. "No my political party would never be that mean"

    But often it comes down to moving on / forgiving on the part of the wronged party and the arseholery continues.

    Maybe people are just pure ignorant but just ignoring hurt doesn't work I think. That's what is happening now "you got EUSS just move on"

    Sure after years of passive agression for me and actual agression for others... See the problem?

  • When I was training to be a doctor someone asked me what I wanted to do and I said "paediatrician - because adults just smoke and drink themselves to death and it's all their fault, whereas the kids are innocent" (or something along those lines).
    The response I got was this:
    What about the 19 year old single mother of two kids who left school age 15 because she had her first child, now lives unsupported by her (ex)partner in a tiny little council flat on the 12th floor of a horrible estate, sees all the tobacco advertising when she goes out every day to take her kids to the nursery and sign on, and her 5 minutes of peace in the evening when the kids are crying is to step outside on the balcony and smoke a cigarette. Is it her fault (and her choice) to kill herself through smoking? Or is that something that society (and her poor upbringing and lack of education) has conditioned her into?

    I'm a Brit living in France. I've not been able to see my family in the UK for the last 18+ months because I couldn't afford the travel (spending time in quarantine, the cost of the obligatory PCR tests etc). I am fully aware of the loss of rights and the xenophobia and racism that is going on.

    I agree that ignoring hurt doesn't work. I'm not saying ignore it. I'm saying acknowledge it - which I think is what you're saying. But that doesn't mean calling people cunts, or playing blame games. I think it means trying to understand where the other people are coming from, what brought them to vote Brexit in the first place, what their hopes and fears are, and how they - we! - might overcome them (together). I'm against the 'divide and conquer' that is rife in society today. I'd like to (re)build bridges and figure out how we can all leave peacefully together.

    Or am I a dreamer? Maybe yes, but I'd like to think that there's a better world we can make together. Call me a cunt if you want, my shoulders are broad and my skin thick, I'll love you anyway.

  • Is it her fault (and her choice) to kill herself through smoking? Or is that something that society (and her poor upbringing and lack of education) has conditioned her into?

    Why is it one or the other?

    Being sympathetic to the wider forces that shape people doesn't negate personal responsibility.

    Johnson's first male role model was a philanderer which no doubt impacted his ability to sustain monogamous relationships. Boarding at a relatively young age at Ashdown House and then Eton, particularly in the era he did, no doubt impacted his ability to develop empathy.

    Does that evaporate all of his personal responsibility in those areas?

  • I have never called anybody names etc. I think a lot of stereotyping is also not helpful.

    Sure, for many Brexit was a hope of a better life and they weren't seeing the issues.

    I've talked to people who believed the NHS slogan and one felt sorry for me.

    I just think it can't just come from one side all the time. There is little acknowledgement of the hurt.

    That's just me though, others are trying to befriend brexiters.
    Others will not even talk to them due to the hurt.

    A lot of it is the old saying that you can't reason people out if things they didn't reason themselves into.

    But now we are all in the shit and I'm not patient or forgiving enough to go bridge building right now. Too many shitty views that I know come from the papers but not there yet.

    It's my life that's screwed with not theirs. (Though it seems that now the project fear is truly starting, can't say I'm pleased to see rising food prices with so much poverty...)

    I hope you can see your family again soon. The pandemic sucks.

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