• Picking up on Steve's post from yesterday - I was thinking about the future of ICE cars as I drove home from Peaslake this afternoon.

    My gut feeling is that the petrol cars that survive the transition to an EV norm are going to be the older ones, and not just because they'll be the ones that have the nostalgia value- I genuinely think they're better than modern ones.

    Not, to be clear, as transport to get from A to B. My 2015 Mercedes is simply a better can than the 2006 Mercedes or the 1996 Volvo that went before it. But, and this is the key - the older cars were much move involving. I think a large part of that is that the older cars had hydraulic power steering - no car that I've tried with electronic PS has much feel. But they also had more character in how they delivered their power as well. The Volvo 850R (at the end of my ownership, I'd be interested to see how it performs now having belonged to Nurse Holiday for a while now) was, as a car, nowhere near as good as the E63 as a turbo-charged road car. But it was a lot more fun. Partly because the E63 doesn't really feel turbo-charged in the old school "nothing nothing nothing WOOOOSH" manner - it just feels hugely linear. But that means it doesn't have the excitement of turbo-lag, nor does it have the feeling of a naturally aspirated engine coming on cam and starting to really scream.

    TL:DR - I think the cars that we will keep are the older ones, which is possibly going to throw up some interesting bargains in ten years.

  • The other thing that may be a factor here is the amount of electronics in modern cars.

    When all the built in touch screens, ECUs, digital displays etc are FUBAR in 20 years time, it will be a hell of a job to strip it all out and replace. Most will just get scrapped, I would think.

    Stuff that has dials and switches is easier to keep going.

  • Went to look at a W124 (or the one after, late 80's early 90s) Merc 300D (e class size) locally last week, was an old slushy 4s auto, but with the epic OM606 in original condition. Slow by modern standards, floaty handling, barge like, had 250k+ on it, drove extremely solidly and had good feedback.
    The heavy controls and solid feedback makes you feel like you are operating heavy machinary. Modern (2005>) cars feel like a mid priced playstation force feedback gaming wheel, only its not configured quite right. Think it likely does have a lot to do with the way domestic car drivers behave and interact, they feel very safe and very removed from the reality of operating heavy machinary.

  • no car that I've tried with electronic PS has much feel

    Would be interested to hear some thoughts on this, most likely candidate for my next car is an ND MX-5, the first MX-5 with electric power steering. Only other car I've driven with that is my wife's Polo which is probably not a great benchmark. Electric PS seemed like an odd choice to my (inexperienced in these matters) mind, but I'd hope that the folks designing the MX-5 aren't going to stick something in that'll have a significantly negative impact on feel.

  • TL:DR - I think the cars that we will keep are the older ones, which is possibly going to throw up some interesting bargains in ten years.

    How encouraging. I shall continue with the Lexus IS250. It is an unfashionable drive, but I am old and do not care.

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