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That Starmer fella...

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    I'm not going to insult both of us by multi quoting and going line by line, but a few points:

    • by advocating that single sex spaces exclude trans women by default, you are arguing for discrimination as defined by the equality act - which you are welcome to do, we're all free to campaign for changes to the law. but by pretending that the EA already allows this and misgendering, Rosie Duffield crosses that line into misinformation and harassment
    • the equality act already allows trans women to be excluded in SOME situations (because of course I realise in the case of Karen White et al, you do not want that person in a woman's prison - for the safety of cis AND trans women) - just not by default
    • the concept of female as a biological term is NOT being erased - the equality act defines sex based protections and gender based protections separately, and it even defines what happens where those rights clash, quite reasonably imo
    • the equality act was proposed in 2007 and the debate at the time was public and widely consulted - this isn't happening against the will of the public, it was enacted by the public and their representatives in parliament
    • the evidence that trans women behave like cis women in women's spaces is in the fact that these inclusionary rules have been in place for over a decade in the UK, and trans women have been using these spaces for far longer, and no-one has really noticed. Look at Ireland!
    • I'd love to believe trans women hadn't been murdered during the time period in question but I'm afraid they were deliberately excluded - here is the person who collates it explaining why she does so. Pointing this out is not 'trying to make it about trans women'
    • here is Kurtis Tripp saying he thinks trans suicide is funny:

    • and here he is accusing trans people of 'cosplaying as the opposite sex':
    • Just to remind you, Rosie Duffield said of Kurtis Tripp: 'I am in touch with (him)...he finds this particular issue incredibly difficult...he has a valid right to talk about it without being cancelled'. This is unjustifiable. No matter where you stand.

    This reminds me a lot of the antisemitism problem in Labour. Corbyn's commitment to the Palestinian people is not up for debate, but in arguing for them, he stood with open antisemites and racists, and damaged his whole platform in doing so. Those who defend Rosie Duffield run the same very real risk.

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    I do not accept the way you interpret the posts you have quoted but I've said I'm going to walk away because this topic is not safe for female people, so after this post I'm disconnecting for a while.

    However, I hope I can bring you a bit of happiness..

    I'd love to believe trans women hadn't been murdered during the time period in question

    From the "counting dead women" site, as of April 2021
    https://kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

    As far as I know, nine males who fall under the trans umbrella have
    been killed in the UK since 2009. I don’t know which of them would
    have described themselves as cross-dressers, transsexuals, transwomen,
    trans women, or even say that they are women but using Stonewall’s
    concept of the trans umbrella, there are nine. There have been over
    1,800 women killed by men in the UK in the same time.

    The most recent being:

    Amy Griffiths, 51, was killed by Martin Saberi, in Worcestershire in
    January 2019. The two have been described as friends.

    So, on IWD 2021, when Rosie Duffield (correction: Not Duffield, Jess Phillips) read out the list of deaths in the UK since the last IWD (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-5636582), there had been no trans women murdered in the period.

    Let's think about those numbers.

    9 possibly trans women. Over 1,800 female people. 200 dead female people for every 1 trans women.

    Now, to be fair Ms Karen Ingala Smith is not an official census. She builds her list from research and available sources. It's entirely possible she missed someone and that would be tragic. But I very much doubt she has missed hundred of killings of UK trans women, not least because such cases would be a significant topic of concern and discussion.

    So yeah, make the argument the site should be called Counting Dead Female People, I'd agree with that. And make the argument that maybe IWD should be International Female Day - after all, no one is saying that Females can't exist as a meaningful social and political group, right? And a day to focus on the global challenges and progress of Female people would indeed be welcome. But don't take a list of murdered female people and make the most important thing about it whether it's using the "right" definition of woman. I'd say that is poor taste - in fact I'd say "poor taste" doesn't even come close.

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    Solidarity. It’s ludicrous that we have reached a point in progressive political discourse where women can be castigated and denounced as “bigots” for standing up for their sex-based rights.
    The population at large - ie the people the Labour Party needs to win over if ever they want to hold power again - are also well aware of what a biological woman is and what a biological woman isn’t. I think that Starmer would be wise to bear this in mind.

  • •

    So we agree that the founder of that blog believes in excluding trans women from her list of murdered women. That's something.

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