Green cycling

There's an interesting article about the environmental impact of bicycles in today's Guardian. What do people on here think? I mean, cycling is obviously greener - but there is definitely also a fashion side to it, plus the sports/recreational side is not necessarily very eco-friendly (depends what your comparison is). And then there's ongoing consumption (all those burst inner tubes!!), and also the associated non-ecofriendly stuff that accompanies the industry... I'm also thinking of the waste and carbon production from stuff like the caravan that accompanies the Tour de France and other races.

So, should cycling be greener? Can it be? How??

PS, I did think about posting this in e.g. climate change thread, but this seems to be a bit of a different topic.

Trek’s figures show that electrifying any bike adds about 65kg of CO2e to production emissions. Making a basic commuter e-bike would therefore produce about 165kg of CO2e.

But compared with the manufacturing impact of a car, the differences between a conventional bike and an electric one are marginal. Making a small hatchback produces about 5.5 tonnes of CO2e. An electric version adds another 2-4 tonnes owing to the battery and electric motor. And manufacturing an SUV produces up to 13 tonnes.

However you cut it, compared with other forms of transportation, bikes have a much smaller carbon footprint.

Unnecessary thread IMO

PS, I did think about posting this in e.g. climate change thread, but this seems to be a bit of a different topic.

I just did, mainly because a search for green cycling didn't throw up this thread!

This is the issue: in some cases, bikes are not transportation alternatives at all. They are a means of recreation, even a form of luxury goods.

More appropriate for MTBers who drive to trails but yeah okay maybe we as a community need to introspect.

yeah okay maybe we as a community need to introspect.

I think that this would be very much letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. There are some leisure cyclists who see everyday down-the-shops cycling as lunacy, but a large percentage will start cycling for leisure and then consider moving on to functional cycling, which is obviously beneficial from a carbon (and road safety, noise, congestion, urban design etc. etc.) perspective

MTBers who drive to trails

And roadie holidays on plastic bikes with support vehicle

I think that this would be very much letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Yes exactly, the Qashqai cunts will just get more fuel. I guess Trek is using this as marketing material to sell more bikes.

I did that couple of times (no support car) but have stopped and use trains on the last trip. But yeah.

Depends how you see cycling; as utility or as fashion/hobby.

Essentially its 'consume less'.

So, should cycling be greener? Can it be? How??

Good thread, IMHO. I just read the Guardian article and it is nice to have a thread to share views on this topic.

I am concerned about the potential rate of obsolescence of today's e-bikes, as they are still in their infancy, with poor range and heavy components. How many of these will end up as scrap due to a lack of electronic parts or because it is not cost effective to upgrade them? The same goes for electronic gear shifting without the ready availability of spare parts or end-user serviceability. One step would be to require right-to-repair in the manner of EU legislation for electronic goods.

Full lifecycle analysis like that of Trek's is long overdue, though one might question models where e-bikes can be less carbon intensive than conventional bikes, by assuming the rider is doing less work:
"Assuming a lifetime travel of 19,200km, a bicycle’s emissions come out at about 25-35g CO2e/km (depending on food footprint, which can be highly variable). With Trek’s updated figure and assuming an EU average electricity mix, e-bikes come in at 21-25g CO2e/km"

again

Trek’s figures show that electrifying any bike adds about 65kg of CO2e to production emissions. Making a basic commuter e-bike would therefore produce about 165kg of CO2e.

But compared with the manufacturing impact of a car, the differences between a conventional bike and an electric one are marginal. Making a small hatchback produces about 5.5 tonnes of CO2e. An electric version adds another 2-4 tonnes owing to the battery and electric motor. And manufacturing an SUV produces up to 13 tonnes.

165 kg to produce eBike

vs

5.5 tonnes for a small hatchback

Then the running CO2 of an eBike is minuscule compared to a car.

Then congestion, road safety etc etc.

This is why cycling as whole should not be held under the same scrutiny of being 'green' as other private modes of transport.

Trek is doing this to sell more bikes. Its greenwashing something thats already green. Like the new national rail logo.

there is definitely also a fashion side to it, plus the sports/recreational side

Really struggling to wean myself off synthetic textiles for exercise (not just cycling). It's not so much the CO2 impact of producing the clothes I own. That is probably comparable the CO2 footprint of all the supermarket packaging and other kinds of rubbish I throw out in a month. But I hate to think about the microplastics that go into the sewage system whenever I wash them.

Merino is the answer I know, but cost and availability makes it hard to make the switch.

Really struggling to wean myself off synthetic textiles for exercise … Merino is the answer I know…

Is it really though.

I’ve had a couple merino cycling tops, they didn’t last very long.

In contrast I have about 5 cheap as shit synthetic karrimor t shirts that Ive been wearing day in day out for cycling, running, hiking, at work, basically anytime I expect to get sweaty for about 5 years. The logos wore off (probably in the wash) long ago but apart from that and maybe the odd pull in the material, they look like new. I can’t believe they are leeching micro plastics in the wash because they’ve all been washed so often there’s be nothing left off then off they were. And there’s no way something like a cotton t shirt would have lasted anything like as long under similar use, I’ve worn through countless t shirts wearing them for much less hard wearing activities while owning these synthetic ones.

Since we need to look at all our activities to reduce the impact as much as we can this has the potential to be a great thread.
There are so many aspects of our lives that can be fine tuned a bit more, even the most sustainable lifestyle can be improved, and sharing the experience gained by people who’ve been doing this for ages with those who want to get started is very useful.
Cycling obviously plays a huge role in reducing transport and travel emissions, but as pointed out there are many cycling activities that are pretty poor. The racing and leisure scenes really need to address the issue.
Then there’s stuff about old tyres, components, lubricants, longevity, the impact of retail outlets, supply of bikes and parts. It all needs to be tackled.
We are heading towards a proper breakdown, and I don’t think a lot of people realise just how dire the predictions are. The media simply aren’t reporting it.
And then there’s post apocalyptic scenarios. Wtf will we lube our chains with when there’s no more oil?

I think the whole CO2 footprint is good for awareness but would be interesting to see its impact i.e. consumers making the right/green choices making impact on climate.

I always feel its a bit of responsibility pushing on the consumer who for the most part is a fucking idiot.

@andyp - happy for the thread to be merged if that makes more sense, but seems some think it's good to have separately.

@amey so it's clear what your viewpoint is!

@Nick_S cheers, and yes, I agree with your points. as otherwise quoted here, "165 kg to produce eBike" is not a lot compared to cars. But will you upgrade your car every year (ok, I know some people do), and/or will you upgrade your ebike every year? Ok, probably neither, but you might be tempted to upgrade your bike more often than a car. Or buy a second one (or a third), or upgrade the battery (batteries? Could be useful to have a second/third so that one is always charging) so there are other, hidden costs that might not be there - or may be more economical - with a car.

And anyway, is a car the right comparator? Do bikes replace car journeys, or do they replace walking? E.g. to the shops. Or do they replace running (for exercise)? Or swimming (how much does it cost to heat and maintain the public swimming pool, for instance)? And what if/when you have both a car and a bike?

I think the point is that producing such environmental impact reports makes people think about these things, which can only be good. Everything has some kind of cost, but what is the benefit?

And, ultimately, how can I minimise my impact? Because after all, it's only 'me' that I can change, right?

Also, @starfish&coffee - interesting point you raise about the clothing, I hadn't even thought that far! I am still wearing cycling trousers that a forumenger gave me in 2008, so it's definitely possible to keep such stuff a long time. Again, fashion clearly plays a role.

Food for thought!

fashion clearly plays a role

Yup. Everyone doesn't need disc brakes.

Fashion idiot companies like Palace & Paul Smith getting involved in already not so sustainable clothing choices.

I'm sure there will be other examples.

Knockoff kit as well I suppose, considering there's no easy way to hold the company to account for shit practices. Makes me think of how materials are sourced (like down) and company affiliations.
Like that one time Rapha stopped doing Giro because of their connection to ammunitions manufacturing (Let's ignore the fact they're now partly owned by the director of Walmart eh)

Because after all, it's only 'me' that I can change, right?

Change your bank. Write to your MP and pension company. Come join the global climate strike today - 11am Parliament Square.

Really struggling to wean myself off synthetic textiles for exercise (not just cycling).

I'm not sure Merino wool is the answer in general, other than for inner layers where it seems to work well.

In a similar way to @M_V my Buffalo fibre pile clothing has been in constant hill walking, plus winter cycling, use since the early 2000s and only now is reaching end-of-life. I have fleece pullovers that have almost no signs of use after a decade.

I love the buy-it-once aspect of these kinds of synthetics, but they need to be modified in sourcing and end-of-life disposal. Unfortunately, I think microplastics in washing are an issue as small quantities in each wash are scaled up by the population size.

I would like to see plant-derived synthetic alternatives that are eventually biodegradable, e.g., eco versions of micro-fleeces and fibre pile fabrics. As one example, Elite are doing this with their Jet Biodegradable Water Bottle.

And anyway, is a car the right comparator?

If one factors in the total carbon emissions in both manufacture and energy production for journeys plus maintenance, then at least it will debunk the myth being used to perpetuate automobile-oriented infrastructure -- that electric cars are 'zero-emission' vehicles. In highlighting the large differences compared to a bicycle or e-bike (as @amey has been for the manufacturing side), I think this approach to comparing transport modes plays a useful role.

Interested in the material chat.

Big fan of merino, my perceived benefits are that it is mostly natural, lasts many years and is washed much less. The t-shirt I'm wearing today has been worn all week, has been to the gym twice and been worn on two training rides. It'll go out on a lunch ride today.. and will probably do the same next week before it is washed.

Have a few swrve items that also stand up to days of use, though not quite as many. They say that their modal fabric is plant based and derived from beechwood tree.

As for comparing with cars, I gave up my car for my bike(s), before moving closer to London. I do feel the benefits of cycling for transport are somewhat diminished by the fact that the train will always run whether I cycle or not but perhaps if enough people did it?!

I don't think that this is a bad conversation to be having amongst manufacturers and amongst those who are already keen on cycling; however, it's absolute fucking poison from an advocacy perspective. The huge majority of people are not talking about buying their seventh full-sus MTB, but just getting a bike for a bit of exercise (which might lead on to cycle journeys that genuinely replace car journeys), or to get to work.

Our personal transportation emissions, making up a sixth of total emissions in Europe, stem from a system based on the car. Bicycle manufacturers will play a crucial role in changing this. But simply replacing most cars with bikes is not enough.

Please, please can we let it be enough for now?! The benefits would be immense from so many perspectives (carbon emissions, urban environment, air pollution, health, independence of kids, social isolation etc. etc.). This is the most irritating facet of movements that advocate for positive social change: that, alongside people who are genuinely positive and welcoming, there are those who are determined to drag the whole movement into a purity spiral and insist that whatever you've done so far (no matter how personally challenging) is never enough.

Achieving the necessary level of decarbonisation – that is, complete decarbonisation – requires rethinking all of our socio-technical systems: an energy system based on fossil fuels; a manufacturing system based on overseas labour and global shipping; a food system based on energy-intensive meat production; and an economic system based on relentless consumption and growth.

Bicycle companies, despite making a useful product, are still fully entrenched in these other systems.

Yes, of course they are! But that's not their fault, nor is it their job to fix that issue. Of course it's great that they might set a good example, but please let's not lose sight of the fact that cycling is good in almost every single respect and the ways in which it's not good are common to almost every single form of leisure or transport.