I hate

Efficient for what though?

Energy use or water use? If you just run the hot tap the whole time you're washing dishes then maybe you could start to compete with a mostly empty dishwasher. But if you wash with cold water and use only the water necessary, there's no fucking way a dishwasher uses less water or less electricity than that.

I work with US-ians.

Words I have had to explain recently: Rota, Faff and Wanky. The latter resulting in some confusion when I briefly thought my colleague's husband was called Wanky. (He's actually called Dick, so you can see how that happened, sort of...)

And the "war gaming" meeting that went in the diary as "wall gaming"

wash with cold water

Epic wtf

Both.

Search on BBC Sounds and listen to it.

Put some elbow grease into it.

Yeah nah

Also, does it factor in the manufacturing of the dishwasher? Because by not owning a dishwasher I'm already well ahead of anyone with one.

The hairshirt is strong with this one..

This.

Also

• Manufacturing costs including pollution, water use, transport fuel
  
• Maintenance
  
• Hand washing techniques
  
• Brand (they’re not all equally efficient, yeah?)
  
• You’re going to replace it with another one eventually, right?
  
• Start at the top of the list again
  

The world needs more of them at all crossings, bike and foot.

Rota, Faff and Wanky

Faff is such a great word! The equivalent in chinese in "mafan" and americans here will happily say "going to the bank is such mafan" and I feel sad that they are only just discovering the utility of this phrase. Also: "ballache".

Look, I'm not going to transcribe the episode for you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zkzq

Welcome to my world. The way in which I have to over enunciate bottle drives me insane.

That's smart. Where is it?

Rota, Faff and Wanky.

Best comic strip ever...

Rota, Faff and Wanky.

Best comic strip ever...

Just 3 good chums trying to make it through boarding school, getting in to japes and scrapes along the way

Going back to the pronunciation thing, what’s the big change when using ‘the’ all about? We used to pronounce it ‘thee’ or ‘the’ depending on which word followed. Now we seem to say ‘the’ all the time. When someone say ‘the other’ not ‘thee other’ it makes them sound like they have just tripped on a paving slab.
Gets right on my t***, it does.

If you're going to provide an argument, at least provide the argument :P

Thanks, I'll have a listen.

Look, I'm not going to transcribe the episode for you:

The BBC will in a week or two and publish it as a stand alone news article. Usually anyway.

You know, I've never thought of that, but sounding it out in my head I think I do pronounce it differently depending on what follows. Never realised.

"Thee end" is a bit smoother than "The end" (which just makes me think of MGS Snake Eater)

Modern Jaguar cars. Particularly the F-Pace.

Exclusively bought by fragile ego'd pink thumbs who's main thought process whilst signing themselves up to crippling monthly repayment schemes was "the neighbours are gonna think we earn more than them when they see this Jaaaaag [in a Clarkson voice] on the drive". Whereas everyone will actually just continue to see them as the dullard drains on the earth's resources that they are.

They're bloody everywhere too. And I assume there's some sort of national hotline you can ring to report one if you see it without a personalised number plate.

It shouldn't boil my piss as much as it does as its probably not healthy, but I think my hatred is a manifestation of my anger about brexit and the tories in general.

The only redeeming feature of the F Pace is that the PHEV model, which you see a lot in London, does about 130 mpg.

Horrible looking cars though.

I used to work with a woman who drove an older Mercedes (maybe 12 years old, not vintage), our employer offered a lease car scheme where you could lease a car through a salary sacrifice, she got a VW Golf, and spent 2 years moaning that the neighbours probably thought she was poor now, as she "doesn't have the Merc anymore", and chopped the lease in as soon as she could, and paid considerable more to sign up for another lease on a Mercedes, so that the neighbours think she has more money.

She is also the person that went to M&S to buy reusable shopping bags for her weekly shop in Lidl, so that "the neighbours think I do all my food shopping in there"

Not sure who her neighbours are, but concerning themselves with her financial situation seemed to be priority 1.

(also, she didn't have a pot to piss in and would have been considerably better off, if she lived within her means, rather than trying to one-up people on her street who probably didn't even notice her)

I hate perceived image. I don't care what my neighbours think about me, and I don't think about them.

(edit: apologies for the @, was supposed to be its own rant)

Claim: 8 dishes in washed in dishwasher every night uses less water and energy than 2min tap run in sink.

Raised first by Proctor and Gamble, Malcolm Gladwell, revisionist history podcast

9L water used for hand washing (on average), handwashers more likely to wash more regularly so could use up to 20-30L/day versus 13L for average dishwasher run.

1.1kwh per wash, sink washing varies massively, they're assuming natural gas heated water

9L in sink to wash meal for two - 8 things, 13L for dishwasher, hence the break even point of 8 items.

They didn't look at energy to make and ship the dishwasher (nor upgrades given they were just talking averages) though reckon it will be paid off over its life (assuming their higher figures)

Plus, dishwasher owners still have to use sinks for non-dishwasher stuff like wooden bowls and chopping boards and posh glassware.

So, given our water is either cold or heated with electric (depending on the items) and normally we use half a sink to wash a day's dishes (more like 6 items per meal, not 8 items only) I'm still confident -our- washing up habits are more efficient than any of your dishwasher shenanigans.

No worries on the @ Essentially we share the same rant. You just use better examples than me to explain it.