Time Trial / Time Trialling / TT

You don't just stick your arms up do you?

Yes, that's pretty much it. You don't want to fuck with your pedalling dynamics, so if you have your saddle height, setback and hip closure angle dialled, leave them alone. Depending on how your forearms sit on the "elbow" cups, you may have to raise them to keep your shoulders in the original location.

FWIW, I just found about 20s over 10 miles with a very modest hand lift/attitude change and nothing else. Going from a simple 50° 3T ski bend to the 30° HiRise USE extension made the tip of the extension terminate at the same extension and height, but rotating my hands by the 20° difference changed my forearm angle from flat to raised about 10-15°. I could do with tilting the elbow cups to suit, but it was fine for 10 miles. You'll certainly need to do something about that for comfort over longer distances even if you only tip your arms up by 10°

Given that I'm going slowly, the time gain gets exaggerated, but even 1s per mile for you is about 5 miles in 12 hours

So, I've just re-read an email from Rob/Float Aero and he mentioned these bad boys:

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/store/AeroCoach-tilt-block-adapter-for-aerobars-p202236391

I've tweeted Aerocoach to see if any of the models will work with my TriRig Alpha Classic base bar. If the generic ones, say, fit, then I could angle the whole lot up with minimal changes and quickly test one way or the other if I like it and it works or not for me.

You don't have any pics of before/after do you? You're saying your hands stayed the same place but your forearms went from flat to steep? Ah, I've googled those 50deg bars and that makes more sense now. I thought you'd put less steep bars on but somehow increase the angle of your arms.

I tested angled bars in the tunnel many years ago and they were worse but lots of other stuff has changed since then so it's entirely possible the angle will help now.

If I could add 5mi to my current 12hr...

You don't have any pics of before/after do you?

No, and if I did it wouldn't help, YMMV. I was just posting an anecdote by way of illustrating how sensitive your aeros might be to hand position alone.

forearms went from flat to steep?

Well, from flat to very slightly sloped. I wouldn't describe what I have now as anywhere near "high hands" by modern standards.

I just meant I couldn't understand what you'd moved. Once I'd seen which extension you were on, it made more sense.

We tested mine from flat to 15deg and it was slower but, like I said, that was 6-7 years ago now and although the bike is the same, most of the kit isn't and my position is a little more aggressive compared to back then when I was setup for 24hr TTs.

It doesn't sound like those Aerocoach things will work so I might try and find another solution. I thought rotating the bars I owned would be the easiest thing to do but perhaps just sticking in some new extensions will be easier, although then I'd have to cater for the Garmin bridge mount I use and Di2 shifters and stuff and the pads wouldn't be at the right angle.

Surprised they have a solution for PDQ/ADR etc that doesn't work with the X.

Try Kingswann on TTF he makes something similar although limited stack.

Actually if anyone east has a set of elbow pads I could borrow for a few weeks I'd be really grateful - the Wattshop ones I have are a 20° inbuilt rise which doesn't work with the new setup I'm trying...

I can't actually work out how these things attach. Maybe they're designed to be thread -from- the bottom and so mine can't work because my base bar has threaded insert in it which gets bolt from the top. I have no idea how most base bars bolt their spacer stacks on.

Maybe I just buy a whole new bar setup that's more adjustable from the get go?

I have a feeling I messaged @Kingswann2013 (is the same person?) about TriRig bars ages ago but I couldn't find his reply. I'll have another look.

Ah, I think his things just angle the pads, whereas I need the pad and bars angled

Although, maybe they could simply be added further down the stack and so angle everything?
No, because then the bolts would be angled too!

Look at the drag2zero equivalent angled blocks. They work with base bars which are threaded. I am looking at getting them to work with my tririg alpha x base bar.

Look at the "Information on compatibility" link on this page: https://drag2zero.co.uk/product/shims/?v=79cba1185463

I went from a flat set up to 15deg and it was definitely faster based on similar power on same courses over this season vs last. Plus higher hands helps me to turtle my head down between my shoulders.

I couldn't understand what you'd moved

On reflection, it does look like the ends moved up a fair bit

ETA: Optimum solution for this hand position would probably be 20° sticks pitched up 15° with those arrowcock pitch blocks

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Cheers, that looks like it might work with my basebar.

If you've already angled your setup, how come you're looking at D2Z bits?

I did ask and he does:

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/120877-aero-bar-wedges-to-angle-the-aero-pads-up/&page=13&tab=comments#comment-1850029

Edit: and now I've asked about angling both, similar to the D2Z offering (i think)
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/120877-aero-bar-wedges-to-angle-the-aero-pads-up/&page=15&tab=comments#comment-1955375

What are you after pads or cups as well? I've got some aerocoach rests that i don't need until next month. Got spare rectangular not scooped aerocoach foam pads as well.

I’d be interested in buying, if @onyerbike doesn’t take them.

That would be amazing if you don't mind, I need cups and probably pads too as the spare Wattshop ones I have may not fit.

Not selling these ones i thought @onyerbike just wanted to borrow some to try before buying

Yep just a short term loan!

They're these ones

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If you get on with them the i think these are the current version. Same shape but carbon have full width scooped pads and supposedly less snappy. Just send me a pm to sort 👍

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I want to tilt higher than the ~20degrees that the tririg clamps allows. I suspect there is more aero benefit to be gained by getting my hands up closer to my chin before I start getting negative effects of having my forearms too exposed to the wind.

Higher hands also feels much more stable and comfortable over long rides. I like they way it locks me into position.

Higher hands also feels much more stable and comfortable over long rides.

Hmm, that never occurred to me. But then, experimenting with it by just resting my elbows on a pad and putting my hands near my face clearly isn't the most stable of options.

I need to get this tested though for my own sanity. At least if I can eliminate this as an option I'll be happy but given the amount of people now using higher hands I reckon there must be something in it and I can't be 0.8mile short after 12hrs again.

If I could add 5mi to my current 12hr...

Obviously you'd need more like 2.5s/mile to do that, 1s/mile is just over 2 miles gained in 12h at 25mph

You said "1s per mile for you is about 5 miles in 12 hours". Bloody false advertising!

2mi would still do it though.

Bloody false advertising!

Caveat lector, checking my maths is part of your due diligence. People have shelled out money based on much less accurate claims 🙂

I'd be one of them if I wasn't so slow in getting stuff done. See, you corrected yourself because I spent the interim asking 100 other questions :)