Which Groupset?

Not sure DA and Ultegra are really aimed at the audax crew.

Mine gets 1500-1800km and I've just charged mine on the move anyway. But if they put the charging on the RD instead of a junction box that's awks.

This is almost certainly just Shimano being conservative. From what I understand it's the same battery as before and I get way way more than 1000km between charges currently

who gives battery life in km anyway, hours!

It's just a guess anyway and totally terrain and setup dependent.

KM makes more sense to me as a "rough idea".

Of course they are! What else are boomer retirees going to spend their fortunes on? Ultegra and DA!

/s

But in all seriousness, I think they're absolutely part of the target market of people who want good, reliable, performance based groups.

I'm old fashioned. DA is for race bikes. Ultegra is for race bikes that get flogged. Everything else gets whatever works for the least amount of money.

Also, I'm not bothered, I've got enough 11spd to last until they're up to 15spd.

DA9000 mechanical did everything required from a groupset, imo. I don't know why they bothered going beyond that. The cost, availability and compatibility issues put me off buying any high-end groupset now. And I am fairly sure I am in the target market.

cassette is £329.99

I don't know why they bothered going beyond that.

If you stand still as a product company, you die.

Yeah, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. But more complexity, higher prices and less availability doesn't feel like progress to me. And I don't want another thing to remember to charge. If Shimano could sell me a time machine to when I could easily buy a DA groupset for £900, I would definitely buy that.

i mean for rim brakes yes. not for hydro disc

time machine is hydro di2 only

Where’s the 12 speed XTR wireless Di2, that’s the question.

Who was it saying £130 for an AXS cassette was too much

Nobody uses MTB Di2.

what about threaded interface on reservoir tho?

A syringe with a threaded end, but like I say, I prefer the cup. Tube to a plastic bag at the caliper end can get to fuck though, whack a syringe on there.

But its backwards compatible with 11spd freehubs, rendering their brand new 12spd freehub useless...

Disagree. Because it'll presumably be used when they release 13sp etc in the future. Also, looking at the 12spd FHB, it looks like there'll be less biting into the splines as there'll be more surface area to spread load over based on the number of splines (maybe?) - an issue that has always plagued Shimano FHBs.

So are Shimano cassettes going to be used by Sram users as they are quieter and shift better?
Also allowing the use of their 11 speed wheels?

chain is the issue with sram

Yeah this is what I’ve been wondering.

I use shimano cassette, chainring and chain with axs Mtb mech for a sort of best of both worlds.

We’ll no doubt start to see mash ups with 12 speed Shimano road cassettes on axs kit. As amey says though, flat top chain is the issue.

Yeah it’s not useless. It’s still used for the Mtb cassettes with a 10t cog.

Like @JB said, it’s almost guaranteed that the next gen DA will use micro spine.

The blurb saying shimano opted not to go with a 10t cog due to efficiency.
More likely they are just saving something for the next gen stuff for people to upgrade to.

Prediction: 2026 Dura Ace group set fully wireless with 10t cog!

Like @JB said, it’s almost guaranteed that the next gen DA will use micro spine

This generation isn't. It's a new freehub design. So we get a one off 12spd only freehub that will be replaced by microspline anyway in the future?

10t cog is a shit idea anyways.

This generation isn't.

Yes, I was talking about the next generation after r9200.

Say the next gen arrives in about 5 or so years from now. It will probably use microspline.

The new DA9200 12 speed cassettes use a free hub shape that fits a current hg 11 speed freehubs.
This is a smart move as a lot of people resist changing freehub designs and it means more people will be willing to upgrade as they can still use their 11 speed wheelsets.

The current 11 speed hg cassettes don’t have much more room to go beyond 12 or 13 speed. It’s physically not long enough.

I would guess the microspline freehub has been designed to take into account future plans beyond 12/13 speed.

Given that there are already 13 speed groupsets I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think shimano will go 13 or 14 speed at some point in the future.

I really wouldn’t be surprised to see sram launch 13 speed axs within the the next few years.
It’s this non stop one-upmanship that’s going to get out of hand eventually. Where does it end? 18 speed di2?

I think the front mech might die when we get to 14 or 15 speed groups.
1x15 axs coming 2028