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edscoble
chiroshi
@PhilDAS
And reynolds will custom draw tubes of different thicknesses for bigger brands that work with them. So it can be 853 but be way chonkier than the 853 your local framebuilder would get their hands on.
Niner, Genesis etc will be more concerned with failures and returns when they don't know their customer than one off builders who know exactly who they're building for.