Masks Work & How To Make Your Own Face Masks

Thanks for letting us know what discussion to be having boss. Good to hear that you’ve decided the truth.

Personally I’m buying a couple of the ASOS masks that @ltc recommends below. Not because masks work mind you, but because masks are mandatory.

Is there any evidence that would make you change your stance on masks were it to be released?

Serious question (sometimes things come across as snarky / sarcastic when written down).

I don't know enough about science to truly be able to digest the arguments for / against masks, but I kind of see it like recycling: is it slightly inconvenient? Yes. Does everyone do it correctly? No. Can I 100% say it's helping? No. Do I support the intention? Yes. So I'll keep doing it until something better comes along.

Is there any evidence that would make you change your stance on masks were it to be released?

Yes of course. A repeatable, randomised controlled study that demonstrates that the benefits of mass face covering (with all kinds of assorted techniques and materials) outweighs the detrimental effects. So far the RCS that exists indicate the opposite. Of course all studies are subject to interpretation. I'd just be happy if there were more effort to actually understand these things before imposing them.

Do I support the intention? Yes. So I'll keep doing it until something better comes along.

Yeah. i'm with you here. I know that my friends think that wearing a mask is like an altruistic gesture. They kind of know that the mask doesn't work to stop the virus, but it is a signal to others that you are with the fact that some serious shit is going on.

I am all for altruistic gestures, but not coerced. Here we are subject to coercion. There is a consensus to wear the mask. Sorry to say, but mass consensus always rubs me the wrong way. I think that most people believe it's bollocks but do it because to NOT do it is to stick your neck out.

I'm concerned that we are entering coercive authoritarian political conditions under the cover of COVID. Am I alone in having that concern?

I'm concerned that we are entering coercive authoritarian political conditions under the cover of COVID. Am I alone in having that concern?

Made me think of this (not to do with masks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj_WFwVOYn8

haha. true.
why the fuck am i required by law to wear a seatbelt?
Like bike helmets... what we want for a government, a strict nanny?
You want to wear a seatbelt, wear a seatbelt. Oh, sorry, the restriction is now built into your car so you have no choice.
The wider argument is about safteyism. That seat belt video is so perfect.

This is what we're moving towards of course.

Don't get me started :)

I was thinking more along the lines of people protesting things that are good for them because they perceive it to be against their rights.

Agreed on helmets though. (even though I always wear one)

right, i'm aware of that being the intention. And that video is perfect because it makes an intuitive argument, that demands for liberal freedom are absurd when they elevate an individual liberty above a collective good. Problem is that it's tricky to draw the right line between individual freedom and collective good. Seems to me that this line is being massively violated. Covid is just a part of a trend, but presents as a mutation leap in the evolution of us being controlled.

I also wear a helmet. Feels cool, and you look more like a pro. I reckon it's only a matter of time before that's no longer something we can decide on for ourselves. mandatory in seattle and melbourne etc. fucks sake.

Thanks for letting us know what discussion to be having boss. Good to hear that you’ve decided the truth.

Dude, is it really a discussion when I give you multiple new sources and reasoned arguments, and you ignore every single point I make against you? You’re dancing from one thing to another without ever actually discussing anything that doesn’t suit the story that you drew up in your first post, and that you keep pushing. Why?

Assuming you actually believe what you post, you’ve become so convinced that your story is true that another user is asking you directly what will it take to change your mind. You’ve actually replied to that: you ask for the strictest level of scientific evidence to prove that a minor inconvenience to you will help save lives and get everyone’s lives back to normal. Do you not see how disconnected that is?

There’s already strong evidence that it works, there’s very little evidence that it won’t, and there’s even less evidence that it does any lasting harm (unlike dying from Covid, or the social and economic harm of losing >40,000 adults).

New Zealand now has life basically back to normal: their pubs and restaurants are open, their kids can have birthday parties, they can stop wearing masks in public. You know what their health experts say directly contributed to that? Face masks.

https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/new-zealands-elimination-strategy-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-and-what-is-required-to-make-it-work

because masks are mandatory.

And they’re mandatory because here, unlike in New Zealand, very many people refuse to social distance, so we all have to wear masks; except then a few people won’t wear masks and still won’t social distance, so now we all have to lockdown.

I'm concerned that we are entering coercive authoritarian political conditions under the cover of COVID. Am I alone in having that concern?

Have you considered that if we eliminate the pandemic and we’d take that power away from the government? By not helping eliminate this pandemic you’re giving the government more and more power to control what we do.

BoJo is handing out tens of millions to his buddies in direct contracts for Brexit. COVID doubling every fortnight and killing hundreds daily is the perfect cover for them because it’s an actual killer running loose. Do your part and help end this.

You can’t kill multiple other people by riding a bike without a helmet.

1782 people died in transit incidents in all of 2018. More people died of Covid in two days over the summer. They’re not the same level of risk.

A randomised control trial of masks and their effectiveness. For covid? Or any infectious agent?
I mean, that would be quite hard getting past an ethical
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/12/e012330
oh.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7263249/

I mean. the ethics
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87870

At the minimum, an RCT would require manipulation of the intervention, by way of the researcher randomly assigning some members of the community to wear a face mask and others not to, and ensuring that both community groups are similar, based on key background characteristics, in other words, controlling for potential confounding factor

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

I think this is a reasonable assessment of the situation. All they claim is that the issue is massively undecided. which is all i've been saying my friends.

As far as ending a pandemic goes. It will end, as all pandemics do. Whether or not it ends as a result or aided by interventions will also be unknown. The virus will not be suppressed by interventions, that's just basic. It will become, or already has become endemic. Let's hope that the interventions we have collectively been subject to will not remain endemic.
let's end it there.

the issue is massively undecided. which is all i've been saying my friends.

Funny that this was all because I politely suggested you reconsider your first post, in which you (wrongly) said masks were proven to double the reader’s chance of getting covid (which, again, is wrong). Shame we didn’t have a real convo here.

Jeez man. This is what a convo looks like. We don't agree. That's cool. I REALLY don't agree with you, but I think we've reached the limits of an online forum. I like this LFGSS chat and don't want it to turn into some twitter horror. No?

ITT, Radar71 claimed there’s a worldwide conspiracy to hide medical information, twisted facts to scare others and sow distrust and doubt, and ignored any information that might counter their narrative while trying to look reasonable. And now they’re claiming the moral high ground. This is what disinformation looks like, not conversation. Disinfo isn’t just done by governments, it can be just one guy on their laptop trying to muddy the waters. But let’s agree to disagree, this is Lufguss not a debate forum.

I regret if I’ve annoyed you guys ITT, but I sincerely think that if we want to get out of ‘post-truth’ we need to start calling people out on their bullshit (and I include myself).
H.

Post truth is basically the internet. It’s a problem. I’m not using a laptop, nor am I believing in a Ww conspiracy (by whom?). I have posted a few links to research institutions at Oxford uni. If you wish to wear a mask, go right ahead... while you still have the choice. Personally, if I were to believe that it was necessary to use one, I’d go for something pretty serious. If my life, and my neighbour’s lives were at stake I’d use something that works. Like this.. Or this.

Those links are not to be taken too seriously friends, i think covid is bio security level 3, not 4 btw. That’s in a laboratory environment, when you are handling the agent (virus) and doing so all damn day long.

Now, if you can’t imagine EVERYONE wearing a face mask that works (and i can’t imagine that), then we’ll have to move on to other strategies for managing risk.

I’d go for something pretty serious. If my life, and my neighbour’s lives were at stake I’d use something that works. Like this.

Those are no good for protecting other people from you if you are infected as they have valves to let what you exhale out. Which is the theory behind the general population wearing masks in supermarkets. If you are in a hospital different rules apply.

yeah. i wasn't suggesting you wear that in any serious way. Don't wear those while cycling, that's for sure.

Not sure where to put this, but I saw a runner wearing a face mask today. He had it pulled over his mouth, leaving his nose exposed, to inhale through his nose and exhale through his mouth.

Thought it was pretty clever.

if he can actually pull that off then fair play, but there's no way i can suck enough air in through my nostrils when i'm exercising

They blocked the flow of the droplets in the tube with five different types of mask materials -- a regular cloth mask, a two-layer cloth mask, a wet two-layer cloth mask, a surgical mask, and a medical-grade N-95 mask.

Each of the masks captured the vast majority of droplets, ranging from the regular cloth mask, which allowed about 3.6% of the droplets to go through, to the N-95 mask, which statistically stopped 100% of the droplets. But at distances of less than 6 feet, even those small percentages of droplets can be enough to get someone sick, especially if a person with COVID-19 sneezes or coughs multiple times

New research shows effectiveness of masks at stopping droplets. At distances under 6ft, the small % of droplets that aren’t stopped (and the ones that are aerosolised) could be enough to get someone sick.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-12/aiop-mne122120.php

What are people's recommendations for reusable masks at the moment? Need to wear one every day at work so looking to buy a couple for the rotation and don't fancy balling out for 1 n95 per day just to sweat in an office.

uniqlo

I've been using the uniqlo ones as well. Do the job.