Car appreciation... the aesthetics, the engineering, etc

Traditionally an ICE car average cost was 0.72 tonnes of Co2 for each £1,000 of retail price during manufacturing. So a moderate £40,000 car would generate roughly 22t Co2 just to get it onto the forecourt.

Let's talk about the pitfalls of these clean air strategies .. consider the scrapage scheme and the fields full of serviceable cars traded for new ones. The plug in grant encouraging new electric car sales - and don't forget with that one how the ceiling has dropped and now the retail of some cars previously eligible has dropped with it (thinking of you VW) to maintain their eligibility and encourage new electric car sales ...

I'm just saying I agree with cleaner air, it's everyone's right, but let's look at the complete picture and not just a strategy that suits today's headline

This is true but I don't think I'd get much traction (no pun intended) by just saying all cars are awful so I thought I'd start by suggesting people buy used Toyota hybrids rather than powerful permanent AWD Subarus.

I need a car that can comfortably take 3x child seats on in the rear and have a decent amount of boot space. Currently in a 05 vw touran DIEsel, but want a hybrid in the very near future as a lot of our journeys are local <10mi, non-motorway. Are there any 2nd hand options for me <£8k?

To play devil's advocate: I own a Subaru, but something I have found with Subaru (and a lot of other 4x4) owners, here at least, is generally they are more outdoorsy people who think about the environment anyway. Yes, I own a car but outside of that the choices I make in life are made to minimise my impact on the environment and I have a very low carbon foot print outside of my car.

I would have liked a 4x4 that could take me off road that was electric, but unfortunately I don't have $60k to buy a car.

Toyota Alphard hybrid?

I completely get where you're coming from, I'm not going to argue with that as I've faced the same from some motorists when on my bike. I just take objection to being demonised (you clearly weren't, I'm talking in general here) for enjoying my car in what I deem to be as responsible a manner as I can. Fast cars and the desire to drive them quickly isn't going to go away any time soon, it's only through education that we can get to the root of the problem. That or ban driving and we all walk/cycle/take driverless Uber-Teslas...

How much off roading are you doing?

If this virtue signalling doesn't stop I'm going to post a picture of a shit brown Morris marina

I like that that is all you took from my message... Like I say, just playing devil's advocate.

I've not taken it off road much because I got it literally two weeks before COVID hit and it has been unsafe to venture off the beaten track or do anything remotely risky given the limited emergency services in Los Angeles County.

I plan to go off road camping now that everything is opening back up here, I am vaccinated and COVID cases have dropped dramatically.

Sorry, I had read and understood your message.

It was a genuine question as I would guess that (myself being one of them previously) a lot of Subaru owners buy them with the intention of some vague off road lifestyle stuff that actually doesn't happen much or at all.

I'm sure that California offers much more opportunity for that kind of thing and it sounds fun.

I'm not virtue signalling^ currently doing a long commute in a petrol car as that's my best option currently. Looking to switch to a used hybrid when I can afford it and a job closer to home asap. I'm just interested, trying to spark a discussion.

Got it got it got it.

Yes, yes it does. The Anza Borrego desert looks particularly good, but I think I've probably missed the time of year when it's safe to go there tbh, given it's a desert and all... Would also love to drive through Death Valley off road.

I have big plans for the autumn/winter.

I’ve parachuted into there (Death Valley). Happy to not go again.

I got out of the car once to take a leak when I was 12.

After a 2 day holiday in the Wirral, the RS6 is hopefully continent again, having had the Oil Seal of Death replaced. Didn't need the rear ARBs droplinks replaced after all, so the bill was cheaper than expected, at only (ahem) £3.4k including a full major service. I took advantage of the time away to get a couple of days mountain biking in the Peak District.

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skoda octavia estate

Buy it. The smile will never leave your kids faces.

After a 2 day holiday in the Wirral

I'm sorry to hear that

The car was in the Wirral. I was in a little barn conversion on a farm south of Buxton. Suited us both.

And it still had its wheels when you got back?

I'm joking of course, I grew up on the Wirral, it's quite nice in parts, just not where I was

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will start looking at the below. No love for the Skoda Yeti? It does seem to be a good practical car.

Toyota Auris
Honda Jazz
Ford Focus Estate
Skoda Octavia Estate

Yeti is a cracking car but they command strong used prices.

Also not that much load space from memory when we were looking. Lots of litres, but it's tall and short.

^Yarp, they're quite wee.

Rolls Royce do at Sywell Aerodrome, Northampton on this morning’s ride.

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More Taycan estate content. Really, really loving it. Haven’t found a car so appealing since the new V60 came out.

https://youtu.be/w0JQNm3t2wg