• Apologies for becoming thread killjoy but I've been thinking about environmental stuff a lot recently having had a kid and was disappointed by the lack of electric / hybrid chat on this thread. If anything it seemed to be getting more 4x4/ Subaru focused. As a cycling based forum I'd hoped for a more forward thinking consensus.

    Don't worry, I make a point of scratching big flash SUVs every time I see one.

    While some cars are more awful than others (especially pre-ULEZ diesels), all cars are terrible in various ways and pretending you can buy your way out of that by getting a hybrid or an electric or whatever is silly.

  • This is true but I don't think I'd get much traction (no pun intended) by just saying all cars are awful so I thought I'd start by suggesting people buy used Toyota hybrids rather than powerful permanent AWD Subarus.

  • To play devil's advocate: I own a Subaru, but something I have found with Subaru (and a lot of other 4x4) owners, here at least, is generally they are more outdoorsy people who think about the environment anyway. Yes, I own a car but outside of that the choices I make in life are made to minimise my impact on the environment and I have a very low carbon foot print outside of my car.

    I would have liked a 4x4 that could take me off road that was electric, but unfortunately I don't have $60k to buy a car.

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