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I've said this somewhere on this thread (or a similar one). I think, as nice as it is, the member democracy is a hurdle to being elected. Their concerns often don't seem to match the general electorate's and it sometimes pushes the party in difficult directions.
Agreed. I think the same argument applies to the question about who's going to door knock and volunteer and phone bank and the like - don't get me wrong, those things are important, but members tend to overestimate their input into a win. For the average voter, the leadership and policies are much more important. A large and active membership does not translate into election success, and sometimes actively harms it.
And that argument also applies to the unions. I am still in favour of collective action and I still think worker solidarity has a place in the world. I also recognise that people like Len McClusky are utterly toxic to the electorate, and that our association with people like him cost us votes. I also further recognise that union membership is at an all time low and excludes a significant number of precarious / zero hours workers.
I think unions have done some great things. I also think they have done some terrible things. I want a new model.
EDIT - Blair's Labour was not in hock to the unions. Other funding models are clearly possible.
ReekBlefs-
I want a new model.
Building a new labour movement from scratch? There are huge problems with the existing system but some of the posts here are pure fantasy.
I also agree that the impact of those knocking doors is probably overstated—in any case it's difficult to quantify their effect on elections. I just don't think for one second that a Labour party led entirely from the top down is desirable, sustainable, or a ticket to electoral success.
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EDIT - Blair's Labour was not in hock to the unions. Other funding models are clearly possible.
All Labour leaders are in hock to the Unions. That's where the money comes from. Prescott was deputy leader for this reason.
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Len McClusky
Unite have reduced ties with the LP already.
I am still in favour of collective action
How do you organise effectively without Unions?
I also think they have done some terrible things.
What sort of things?
bens0n
hurricane_run
🅑🅐🅣🅣
I've said this somewhere on this thread (or a similar one). I think, as nice as it is, the member democracy is a hurdle to being elected. Their concerns often don't seem to match the general electorate's and it sometimes pushes the party in difficult directions.
For instance I'd say it was clear pretty early that Corbyn needed to go but with the members as they were this didn't happen.