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  • for what it's worth I don't think it's dismissiveness or PC/woke culture gone mad that is alienating people from the labour party. it's the fact they have nothing to say about their lives, or a vision/offer that will make the country a better place

    This I think is key. I've been doing my best not to pontificate about this weekends results until they're in (you can imagine how hard that would be for me but I think it's important) but the more I'm thinking about it the more this argument lands with me.

    The woke stuff is important. It really is. It's easy to take the piss out of but it is important. If we're going to be a party about social justice then we have to be about social justice.

    But for most voters, it's the sauce, not the meal. The meal is life and death stuff; the rollout, crime, drugs, jobs, house prices, that stuff. Get that right, and we've earned the right to talk about the woke stuff. Only talk about the woke stuff and we look like we don't live in the real world.

    Does that sound right to any of you?

  • Does that sound right to any of you?

    I think the effect here is amplified by the urban/rural divide. Institutional and systemic racism, for example, are a lot less visible and apparent in the countryside and even in large towns, but those issues are front and centre for London, Manchester etc.

    It seems to me the country, or maybe just the red wall, is angrier at Labour than they are at the Conservatives, and for me that has to lie at the feet of media strategy/media - what else could it be when L literally haven't been in power?

  • They're still the opposition party, up against a massively corrupt and cronyistic government, and however much media bias there is, Labour should have been able to either state what their position is and/or show how abject and corrupt Johnson et al are. Can't lay the failure on the media alone.

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