That Starmer fella...

I’ve come to the conclusion that England is fucked and the best option is to leave.

More of the 'take off and nuke it from space' opinion, but yeah.

Country's fucked by over a decade or vicious Tory incompetents, better vote Tory some more. And we're still not allowed to say the country's full of idiots.

But that is by design, no? Tory press, Tory approach to education. A stupid and bigoted population is one that will return a Tory majority until the sun goes out- so if you are a Tory it’s on you to alter the demographic. Mining pensioners for spite is effective, but you have to make it a renewable resource.

Re: Hartlepool - having seen one of the leaflets saying the government is only spending in Tory seats rather than Labour I can totally see why some forgotten brexit voters wanted to get a Tory in and get some of the cash.
For a Brexit voter, they've gone from feeling totally disenfranchised to being told by Farage that they can change things - and succeeding! Winning the brexit vote, then getting Boris in, they're taking back control as they see it. They just have to make sure they can hold the government to account.

At least you lot have moved on. I’m still blaming Ed Milliband for standing against his brother.

Basically the whole block of Reform/Brexit party voters moved to the Tories, makes it hard for Labour in a pro Brexit post Brexit world

That's true, which is why I'm less concerned about the size of the Tory majority (which broadly can be attributed to the collapse of the Brexit / UKIP party) but the fact that Labour went down 9 points. If we'd increased our percentage share I could write this off as a glitch, but the fact that we lost vote share is the real problem imo and we need to do something about it. Christ knows what though. What possible policy offering can unite Hartlepool and Newham?

While the Hartlepool result is objectively terrible, in the last GE there was only a Lab win because the Brexit party split the tory vote. BP + Tory was roughly the same majority over Labour as in this by-election. It's not like the signs weren't there.

(just repeating what Bleak said really)

The design is clever right, be corrupt, underfund Labour councils, pump money into Tory councils, rig the development funding so that more affluent Tory areas get funding over more deprived Labour areas, be like Jenrick and unapologetic for it and at some point will hold there nose and vote for it accepting the system is broken but they want some money spent in there area

yep - at least then people are voting for something rather than against something. Its more empowering for them.

Whilst you strip the arts, media and historical societies of voices that won’t espouse the government line- a Sewell report fir every inequality saying that it’s both a) fixed and b) the blame for the problem lies with the minority

We are much, much closer to being Hungary than we want to admit.

Labour got 9% less than 2019 and 25% less than 2017, there's more than just Brexit party voters going Tory problems going on.

But also turnout -15% vs 2019 so fewer votes to go round. I agree it's shit, but my point is that it was already shit in 2019, but they got away with it.
Anyway - the rest of the results also look fucking awful for Labour so far, so I don't expect Starmer to last long now. Time for Nandy or Raynor probably.

Reading just a few of these links I'm beginning to wonder if the underlying factor behind all of this is that "working class" doesn't mean what it used to mean (if it actually means anything at all).

If these arguments about the Brexit party being the only reason Labour held the seat are correct then it makes even less sense that an arch-remainer was imposed on the seat.

Those arguments also assume that all 2019 Brexit party voters swung over from the tories, which is something that I don't think is plausible given the changes in vote share:

It doesn't work though does it? If the whole country votes for the Tories, there'll be no need to funnel money to Tory constituencies. You're only going to get the money if you're a swing seat or your local Tory is a minister and able to redirect money to their own constituency (Jenrick etc.)

I haven't done any research but it looks to me like the only reason Labour held Hartlepool in 2019 is that it swung too far to the right/to Brexit and the vote was split. Had BXP not stood they'd have lost it.

Now BXP has changed to REFUK and they're getting 0 media airtime. Doesn't really say anything about Labour IMO

Not to mention that those voters were the ones Starmer was apparently courting with all the flag stuff etc.

is that "working class" doesn't mean what it used to mean

There's certainly not the same large industry and union breeding grounds anymore, I think it just mostly means poor now.

I think it just mostly means poor now.

I'd disagree (although I'm talking only in terms of huge sweeping generalities). I think "working class" seems to have a similar meaning to "real Londoner" in that it ties together a thread of nationalism and social conservatism with a family background of poverty (or at least non-wealth). Inasmuch as it is the opposite of "middle class" it doesn't really describe people's current situation. Many "middle-class metropolitan liberal elites" earn less than they could as a plumber/electrician (although they might have family backup that would stop them ever falling on really hard times). As some have noted above, home-ownership (perhaps through council-house purchases) have given people who identify as working class a much bigger financial stake to defend than many middle class young people who can't get a foot on the property ladder.

Lol what a sh*tshow for Starmer and Labour.

As some have noted above, home-ownership (perhaps through council-house purchases) have given people who identify as working class a much bigger financial stake to defend than many middle class young people who can't get a foot on the property ladder.

I agree. Almost all older home owning 'working class' people have a healthier asset-to-debt ratio than your average childless double incomed highly educated 'middle class' city-dwellers who can only rent.

I remember when that whole Theresa May 'metropolitan elites' attack on remainers was going on. I was renting a one bed flat in Clapton with my (now) wife barely able to make rent each month. I felt that attack was a little unfair.

Whatever working class means culturally, it's certainly no longer referring to pure economics - if it ever was.

The ways in which class terminology gets thrown around seemingly at random really infuriates me. If 'working class' is to be anything other than a completely voluntarist identity then the primary aspects we need to consider are material—someone's relation to the means of production, whether someone owns assets etc. etc.

Here are a couple of good recent articles on it: https://www.thesociologicalreview.com/a-sociology-of-class-without-feeling-reimagining-the-politics-of-class-in-sociology/

https://autonomy.work/portfolio/berry-class-rent/

I'm not by any stretch arguing that there aren't also cultural dimensions to class, by the way, but the contortion of the term 'working class' to mean older adult male with socially conservative views has been hugely damaging to political discourse.

Who would have imagined bizarre photo ops like this wouldn't hit home?

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See also this:

I don't know who any of them are, but I like the look of those triple clamp forks