Isen workshop: adventures in batch production (or not...)

Out of interest what’s the biggest 650 tyre that will go in it at present?

38 fit nicely, 40 might fit but be unsafe to run, 42 touch the chainstays and don't spin.

Why as a consumer should I be expected to question what the qualified expert who is building the frame tells me it can fit?

Because it's easier than trying to fix it after you've bought the wrong bike. I'm not defending Isen, but you wouldn't have got sucked in by their dubious marketing claims if you had a basic grasp of the dimensions at play. If you want fat tyres and narrow Q, something else has to give.

You just tested three sets of wheels and tyres in 2mm increments that you just happened to have lying around? On what rims? Are they true? Where are your measurements? Pictures? What was the actual lead time on the frameset? Does your partner even give a shit, or are you just assuming her opinion on her behalf? Have you actually talked to Isen yet, or are you just whining in public as a first recourse? Etc etc.

😂😂😂😂😂

I'm a talbot customer, obvs, but how people can pseudo defend this happening several times to several customers or berate @saffronspokes as above is beyond me.

But a basic grasp of geometry is not what you're suggesting, you're suggesting highly specialist knowledge. My winter bike can easily fit 650b x 42 and has a standard road chainset so it's obviously possible.

Also stating the clearances a bike can take is not really dubious marketing, its a fundamental part of the bike specs. Something black and white that is or isn't true. If they'd have said 'the frame fits rad gravel tyres' but not specified the sizes and I'd not checked (4 times) then yeah maybe some blame would lie with me.

Colour me naturally suspicious.

Eh! Assuming this is a joke!

The bike currently has 38c tyres on it (which fit). We have 2 sets of wheels the other set have 42c on, they don't fit. I said above that 40c might fit (I.e I've not tried it).

All tyres are on DT Swiss rims, and measure close to stated sizes. My partner is even more annoyed than me, I had to compose the response to Isen on her behalf as she was so disappointed.

The reason I'm 'whining' in public is because had I known about the 6+ people who had similar issues with Isen we may have considered our purchase. I know Matt is of the forum but that doesn't give Isen a free pass all I've done is highlight the issues we're having. Hopefully they'll sort it out and if they do, I'll make sure everyone knows it is all resolved.

I'm assuming it's a bit of Sunday entertainment to troll me but seriously...

but how people can pseudo defend this happening several times to several customers

It's kinda weird. I get 'tester's perspective though, you look at the frame and nothing suggests it would take a 1.65" tyre. It looks like a fast road bike.

Looking at the copy, it says 'clearance up to 42mm with mudguards'. It's been a while since I've cared about this stuff, but 'up to' does not mean 'will take any 42mm tyre + rim + guard combo on the market'.

But, if you write it down it needs to work, because, someone will try it, then get annoyed when it doesn't work.

Bugger.

(that said, if Saffronspokes has callipered it and there's no 42mm + clearance anywhere where a 650 tyre would find itself, then yeah, that's an even more serious problem).

It's also the fact that they confirmed on email that it fits, I checked 4 times before we ordered!

I've not measured the inside of the frame but this is a pic we took yesterday when we discovered they didn't fit (you can see it touching drive side) . As mentioned previously we'd actually be fine if 42c fitted without guards.

You'll also notice that the wheel doesn't sit in the middle of the frame (this is the case whatever wheel we try).

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Good God man.

I got the same bs when I raised similar issues publicly.

It almost looks like the dimple for the tyre clearance is approx where the rim is rather than where it should be for the tyre...

Yep. Familiar story - dimples seem all wrong. As a result, my All Season (from the initial batch) can barely manage most 33s on 700c (currently running Challenge Grifo 33 rear). 42? No chance at all.

Same on my batch one isen. The center of the dimple is at the rim tyre interface for a 700c wheel. I guess it is positioned more to give clearance for 650b?

I'm happily running 32mm GP5000 with mudguards.

This is a 51cm model and is only designed for 650b wheels. It's not designed to work with either 700c or 26 inch so in theory should be a pretty easy one to get the clearances right on. It's also just been built so the teething problems from batch 1 I'd expect to have been resolved.

Unacceptable for real wheel alignment to be out and wheel to be off-centre. That shit makes everything a mess; squeaky dragging discs, poor component wear, whack pics on the internet.

The All Season frames are QR rear rather than thru axle and that sure doesn’t help either

Seems like the good people at isen would be better off taking peoples money and spending it on titanium cargo bikes and expensive coffees, and not actually sending out bikes.

The new ones are thru axle (if you pay the upgrade, which we did).

stating the clearances a bike can take is not really dubious marketing

It is dubious marketing if the claim turns out to be untrue😉

Sorry for slow reply, I'm mostly off line now for personal reasons so didn't see it immediately.

As has been alluded to above, and in the early pages of this thread we had lots of clearance issues early on, and have put a lot of checks in place since then to avoid issues like them happening again, involving numerous people (not called Matt), throughout the build process, and dummy wheels. I'm in no way dismissing @Saffronspokes concerns, and we will email the customer tomorrow to get this resolved as soon as possible, but i can't really say anything until I've got the bike in front of me.

As tester pointed out (cherry picking bits of what he said while ignoring other bits obvs) there is a high demand on that bit of real estate, so if something doesnt match up with rims tyres etc it can easily go wrong. Again, im sure this doesn't make @Saffronspokes sunday any less annoying because of it.

Once ive got the bike back ill get it on surface plate and work out whats going on, and speak to customer about making sure they got what they ordered, and are enjoying their crash replacement as much as their old one. We can fuck stuff up, and definitely have done in the past, and may have done here, but we put a lot of effort in to trying to avoid them happening again (normally something simple like getting someone but me to do whatever task it was 🤐) , and have always gone out of our way to try and sort out anything we cocked up.

@Saffronspokes feel free to dm me if you want to send anything specific, we can speak tomorrow on phone as well if you'd prefer.

Can i quote this on website please jorj? ;)

Thanks for the reply @coldharbour.

Let's see what we can do tomorrow. Hopefully something that can be sorted out quickly.