Home DIY

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Fuck. Tell me more...

Isn't that just an overheated fuse and/or dodgy pin connection, which could happen with any socket?

That could have been a loose connection, or faulty accessory. A socket should be able to handle a 13a draw no problem. It would blow the fuse in the plug if it was drawing more than 13a.

Right, I'm opening the smart thermostat can of worms again.

We have moved into the new house, it's great. I have temporarily forgotten about how much I hate Hackney BC, Hackney Council systems (not the people) and the conveyancing process in general.

So the new house has the following, not mentioned to me when I previously enquired:

1 x Baxi Combi Boiler.
1 x wireless Thermostat for the underfloor heating in the kitchen extension
1 x wireless Thermostat for the Rads
2/3 x TRVs on 2nd floor loft conversion (2 rooms and bathroom)

Only found one Thermostat to start and the well insulated top floor rooms get super hot, TRVs can't stop heat rising I guess. Kitchen floor was stone cold. Then found the second thermostat, set it appropriately and kitchen warmed up. Then I set it overnight so the RAD thermostat was 15deg and the kitchen was 21deg. In the morning some of the RADs were warm and top floor was toasty.

Questions:

1. If set up correctly, is it possible that the rads can get warm when the underfloor heating is the only thing calling for heat? TRV in the top bedroom (office) was set to 5, but should surely not have been running if the relevant wireless Thermostat (in the kitchen) was set to 15deg.
   
2. I definitely need something more intelligent than the current setup. As it stands, we will be heating multiple rooms when there is no need and having to manually adjust rads when we come into rooms (lounge in the evening for example, unused for the rest of the day). What are my options? So far I can only find tado that can control a (wet) underfloor heating and RAD system with a combi boiler.
   
   

Tumble drier and an adaptor. I still have no idea why the adaptor was plugged in but it was. I didn’t notice anything as my sense of smell is really bad. Wife and daughter complained of burning smell over a few days. I then looked at the socket and found it as per the pic with the adaptor burnt and melted into it. Dodged a bullet - big time!

In my experience most consumers up to untrained professionals have no idea about the rules and recommendations surrounding even the most basic test meter. There's quite a lot of specific basic process that even the trained professionals are being doubly encouraged and reminded to follow.

I wouldn't make any assumptions that a consumer has a reliable voltage tester and is testing it properly before they test for dead or is locking the means to re-energise the circuit.

The adaptors plug should have been properly rated for 13amps. Or an internal connection failed and arcing started. All the same the plug top should have been able to resist the max current draw of the fuse.

Second look, I guess it could have been arcing on the line connection, maybe copper hardening due to heating up and cooling down.

I was lucky. Best of it was it happened on 22 December - not the best time to buy a new tumble drier and my wife refused it as a Christmas prezzie!😁

locking the means to re-energise the circuit

I can see that being necessary in a big site where there are multiple people working but when I turn the CU off to replace a light switch or something there is zero chance my wife will turn it back on again. Do any domestic consumer units have lock off points anyway?

You were but it probably wasn't going to cause a full blown fire. I'm assuming the moulded plugs have some extra qualities and the breaker in the cu should have popped after the current draw got serious.

Sounds RAD

I wouldn't make any assumptions that a consumer has a reliable voltage tester and is testing it properly before they test for dead or is locking the means to re-energise the circuit.

Agree. There are people who can't change a lightbulb or wire a plug.

I do think that technical, able people (like Rogan) who 'get' systems and know they need to train themselves before doing something 'technical' in nature will do enough due diligence and buy the tooling (and test it!) required to minimise the risk of zapping themselves and / or setting themselves a trap for later though :)

Could be wrong. I'm not dead yet, have done many light fittings in our gaff. But then I grew up doing electrical shit / nerdery.

If set up correctly, is it possible that the rads can get warm when the underfloor heating is the only thing calling for heat?

I have this problem. I think my central heating motorised valve is knackered and isn't closing properly so the rads come on when the hot water is on. One day I'll get round to replacing it or finding a plumber.

I definitely need something more intelligent than the current setup. As it stands, we will be heating multiple rooms when there is no need and having to manually adjust rads when we come into rooms

I keep wondering about this. As an example our loft room has been heated all weekend even though nobody has been in there so the radiators could be off. Tomorrow my wife will be working in there and will want it nice and snug. But 3 smart TRVs (3 rads) and a bridge is 200+ which will take many years to pay for itself so I'm not sure if it is really worth it.

It looks to me like the adapter has melted but the socket is fine. 13 amp fuses produce a lot of heat at high current draw, so if the adapter wasn't made of sufficiently heat resistant plastic...

If set up correctly, is it possible that the rads can get warm when the underfloor heating is the only thing calling for heat? TRV in the top bedroom (office) was set to 5, but should surely not have been running if the relevant wireless Thermostat (in the kitchen) was set to 15deg.

If the heating's 'stat wasn't calling for heat, the radiators shouldn't get warm. Obvs. And as you have a Combi, it's unlikely you have a zoning issue where when it heats water for the hot water it accidentally pumps hot water to the rads as well.

TRVs can gum up and stop working properly. You can take them off, give the stem a poke and see if it returns quickly / easily.

Worth checking if your underfloor 'stat is measuring floor temperature via a sensor or air temperature around the 'stat itself.

I definitely need something more intelligent than the current setup. As it stands, we will be heating multiple rooms when there is no need and having to manually adjust rads when we come into rooms (lounge in the evening for example, unused for the rest of the day). What are my options? So far I can only find tado that can control a (wet) underfloor heating and RAD system with a combi boiler.

We have Tado and some underfloor but the two do not meet, can't be bothered and the 'stat for the underfloor is good enough.

Yes, they all do. They have a couple of holes on the breaker switch itself that you fit a lockable mech to. There are a few different designs of lock. They really are a deterrant against stupidity though not malice.

Why wouldn't you trust the wife at home but I've been in situations where people do switch them back on for all kinds of weird reasons. In my experience you could tell someone, 'make sure no one switches it back on' and they will hear 'switch that back on when I leave the room'.

When we're all encouraging people to have a go at electrics it seems like a good idea to arm them with some basic safety skills. If you say something like, I think we all know how to test if a circuit is dead then lots of people are thinking, yeah, magic wand, neon screwdriver, multifunction multimeter and they are all options we can agree can work but they all have significant safety issues that can result in death.

Specifically you should use a voltage tester which is a single job tool. You should test and confirm operation before you use it to test a circuit.

I see voltage testers failing or becoming unreliable over time or when you go from cold damp environments indoors or they are subject to vibration in transport. These are quality brands but these tools are fallible.

Especially if people don't recognise a 3 plate or understand the importance of earthing a metal fitting.

I should have modified my tone a bit there, it just helps to keep reinforcing the point. There are young electricians who've lost their lives because of failing to grasp this and they have family mounting campaigns to get people to take it more seriously.

Forum approved Gas engineer Rokas said it's more efficient to you a small electric heater in one or two rooms you are using!

lol. I didn’t take a pic of the adaptor but it was well melted. A fire was a real possibility as there was stuff around the socket - like cloth flowers which would have went up in style. That’s why I didn’t notice the mess as it was behind the stuff. Imagine if I had a bike in the garage!!🤬

I found a pic of the adaptor

1 Attachment

I can see that being necessary in a big site where there are multiple people working but when I turn the CU off to replace a light switch or something there is zero chance my wife will turn it back on again

Doesn't stop me from shouting 'don't fuck with the CU for next hour!'

When mine crosses the kitchen with a knife I keep clear.

Locking the CU doesn't cost much and it can make you feel a bit safer if you're out of sight.

Ahh, one of those adaptors. I'm sure the investigation would have just put that on a big pile of problems we are aware of but can't influence. I don't use that type any more, I wouldn't recommend it for anything with a big current draw.

Never again but, as mentioned, I have absolutely no idea why it was there - it wasn’t needed. Upside - you live and learn. Downside - I need a spark to fix the socket and I have a list of ‘wee jobs’ to be done too - no doubt costly and I have short arms and deep pockets 😁

The reason for building it was to elevate and provide support behind.

They’re all 18mm or 20mm boards so less likely to warp anyway.

I've got a load of wobbly thinner ones that I'm struggling to design furniture to use. I have had some issues with 18mm in the past but it's always heat and damp related.