Women’s lives

Like everyone I am outraged by the Sarah Everard case and the only upside can be a catalyst for change. How can we make society safer for women?

I’ve already been called out by ‘Mrs jv’ for stupid ideas like women being allowed to carry stun guns etc but I get it that it’s men’s behaviour that needs to change through education from a young age. What are your thoughts?

Well I’ve met and worked with a lot of highly educated people who’s views and attitude towards women were nearer to that of the dark ages so I think a particular type of education is perhaps needed

I don’t like my wife walking to places on her own after dark. I’m just paranoid “something” could happen.

I don’t know why I worry if anyone tried anything with her she deck them.

Men are fucking pigs, I always walked female mates to the tube station or waited at the bus stop with them when I lived in London... I think it's gonna take a few generations for attitudes to change, same goes for race, sexuality, etc... We've got a way to go...

I am a woman.

Every woman I know has been harassed or worse. It happens all the time. The micro-aggressions are barely noticeable sometimes. You just roll with it.

This evening riding down the road outside my house, a guy tried to ride down the road towards me (wrong way for him). He said "good evening young woman, or should I say man?" (I have a shaved head) Then he chucked to himself and rode away. I felt so weirded out.

Men need to try harder.

With the fear of this thread becoming a bit of a bashing thread and the risk thereof of a wholly one sided debate its deffo not an exclusive man thing in regards to some of the anecdotal experiences of rudeness.
I think thats universal.
People are very rude man.

The issue is entitlement, not class or race just people in general are so rediculously entitled now they feel they can do whatever they want. they have the confidence to be extreme. the platforms. there could definitly be some weight to the generational thing, theres some way to go and weve had a bit of a set back
This Everand case Im very ignorant to the specifics but no, whatever happened is not acceptable. I know a women is dead and a man has been charged and has been to hospital twice in a few days or summat.
Edit; im kinda guessing the rest from the story being so prevalant
This person didnt understand no, or they did and did what they wanted to anyway cos why shouldnt they, in every other aspect of their life they are probably urged and rewarded for that sort of maverick behaviour, until iyts gone wayyyy too far, like this instance.

I feel theres something to be said for the humble sorry sorry sorry british stereotype stay away from everyone no eye contact etc etc. tho its not a british thing, its a type of person, old fashioned.

I dont want to be a rambling dick here and i fully understand the context and sexual crimes are abhorrent, keep the focus on that.
Why does rape happen.
Discuss the attitudes that lead to sexual crimes.

Men and women should respect each other no doubt, its very clear many dont.

RIP Sarah and all victims.

3 women a week murdered in their own homes during lockdown. Up from the 2 murdered in usual times. When I saw the BBC headlines about a missing woman in Clapham do you know what I thought? I thought why is this news? Because it’s not news. It’s not unusual. It’s all the fucking time. It’s fucking awful what happened to her and it’s also fucking awful that it takes a pretty young white girl to make it worth headlines. I’m no more angry or scared than I was a week ago, but that’s only because I’ve been fucking incandescent for a very long time.

Agreed. I don't think I can get angrier than I already am. If I hear one more "not all men" comment though I might spontaneously combust.

Men need to do better. I am a man, I'm very left leaning, I like to think of myself as a feminist, I like to think of myself as someone who does the right thing when they can but I'm 100% guilty of not saying or doing enough to stop a toxic, misogynist culture being the norm. I've not spoken up when I've heard other men saying disgusting things, for no reason other than I've not wanted to have an awkward conversation or because it's easier to pretend I didn't hear it. Despite the fact that most women/trans/ non binary people I know have been the victims of some level of abuse at the hands of men, I've taken the easy route too often to avoid a hard conversation which just perpetuates the disgusting culture which leads to violence and abuse towards people who aren't men being normalised.
As someone above has stated, it's shocking that it's had to wait until an attractive young white woman has very publicly died at the hands of a man for the country to take notice, but right or wrong, it seems to have brought the conversation to the forefront. It seems like the perfect time to change your behaviour and not shy away from those difficult conversations any more.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/12827348/carer-dead-bexhill-beach-mystery/amp/

I agree with others that it is disappointing that other tragic news didn’t get the same attention. But I am glad that this thread has started.

Us men need to do a lot better. RIP Sarah Everard and all victims of violence

Glad to see this thread was started and I'll follow with interest.
There's so much I could say on this but I feel it would just come across as ranty at this stage.

With the fear of this thread becoming a bit of a bashing thread and the risk thereof of a wholly one sided debate its deffo not an exclusive man thing in regards to some of the anecdotal experiences of rudeness.

All lives matter, amirite?

Police made a serious mistake last night. People are asking whether the women needed to wear Rangers shirts so old bill would leave them alone.

Not sure I really want to weigh into this but some thoughts.

There are particular things about the Sarah Everard case that have made it stand out in the public mind - I have not been following it, or the news in general so I may get things wrong here - but the fact that as a missing person it was reported in the news and got a public awareness quickly was unusual (I saw some shared missing person facebook posts for her, and I see those every week for other people who don't make the news), then the discovery of a body and an accused being charged very quickly, together with the photogenic identity of the victim, made it kind of complete as a horror story in the media. The situation of lockdown (and interacting with the world through media) I think has also had an impact on how people have reacted to it. It's like there's a need to say something, do something, react in visible and collective ways.

Yes, it's horrific. Yes it's awful that women don't feel safe on the street and get harassed often and just have to brush it off. Yes it's good there is a lot of discussion right now - seen some great social media posts as well as more journalistic stuff. But let's not forget that you're more likely to be murdered in your own home than abducted from the street. The reclaim these streets slogans about not having to stay home to be safe? Home isn't safe. Your partner, ex-partner, friend of a friend, colleague, isn't (always) safe. Stranger-danger is over-emphasised.

Yeah it's uncomfortable and intimidating being harassed on the street but that's not what I fear.
I realise this is very much up to the individual but I have got into arguments with 'well-meaning' acquaintances because I feel safer going home alone than being escorted by a work colleague or friend of a friend or whoever, I feel safer on a rowdy night bus than in a taxi. Strangers committing horrific acts are the nightmare of our collective minds, but the mundane reality is that it is people you know. And no, they don't all wear creepy loser tags on their forehead. They aren't all crass cat-calling stereotypes. Yes, it could be that 'nice guy' you know. Believe us when we say we would rather not be walked home.

And while being white, pretty and well-off don't in any way protect you from these crimes, there is a media - and not just media - bias in how we see victims of crime, how horrified we feel, how surprised. This cuts both ways - the lack of surprise or interest in poor women and women of colour abused and murdered in their own homes, and the disbelief or incredulity towards an abused woman who is perceived as powerful (rich, pretty etc). Unless they're actually murdered.

Maybe this is OT for the intention of the thread. Edited.

the photogenic identity of the victim

Bit more than just being photogenic - middle class white young professional woman (went to Durham, enough said) who was abducted in the middle class London rental entry ground that is Clapham. This speaks to the white outside of London middle classes because it could have been one of their darlings.

Where was the same outcry for Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry? Apparently the only people who found them photogenic were the sick police who took pictures of the crime scene and shared them on WhatsApp.

Indeed I should probably say "mediagenic" rather than "photogenic".

What are the triggers that turn an adult missing persons case into news? Is it reliant on media picking it up or is it also to do with police categorising it in a certain way, making an appeal etc. Is it just the number of days? I see missing persons appeals on social media quite often and sometimes they even have police case numbers attached but rarely make the news.

Yeah it's uncomfortable and intimidating being harassed on the street but that's not what I fear.

this is very well put and something any man looking to show allyship should take ownership of. the focus from male peers and family members, in light of these events, as with all events, is on not only the "random stranger" but their acquaintances and their colleagues.

it's just as important, if not as statistically more important you shine a lense on yourself, your family members, your close friends, even if it means spoiling a family dinner or a friendly round of drinks at the pub, the group chat vibe because you, your mate or your brother said something awful. it's easy to lash the "ideal perpetrator" but the real leg work, and arguably what provides a more meaningful shift in ones attitude, is shutting down the people "we know don't mean it, just unconscious" (statistically they're likely to unconsciously enact it too).

Where was the same outcry for Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry? Apparently the only people who found them photogenic were the sick police who took pictures of the crime scene and shared them on WhatsApp.

i did find this uncomfortable to swallow, not that all victims are not deserved of the coverage Everad received, it's how quickly the media will spin up the machine for people like Everad but not other victims like the aforementioned Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry.

more than that, how often events like the murder Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry and subsequent disrespect officers of the MET conducted, is erased in reporting when reporting similar gendered state violence from other serving officers. it's not surprising, but it doesn't make it any more exhausting, especially after a summer of corporate and media entities telling us they're "listening and learning"

My sister attended the peaceful vigil the other night, to stand in solidarity with the local community, for all women of the area, it was a peaceful time for reflection, until the very officers who structurally cause so much pain and harm to women in the area and London as a whole, waited for it to get dark and dragged women half their size to the ground. My sister herself there with 2 other women and their dog, were accosted by a male officer, who, coincidentally, didn't like that a woman was ignoring him so saw fit to grab her friend, which they pulled her away and quickly left.

this violence isn't just for us to remove at a personal level, or an individual level, but for us to remove at a structural level. politicians of any party, voting against spy cops or undermining community driven efforts for reform of the police service for sake of "optics" are doing harm to women and it should be seen as that too, and are just as responsible as the officers throwing women to the ground.

Your long post is thought-provoking. I wonder about the relationship between media and audience, like chicken and egg. Do the media focus on certain aspects and then feed it to the public, or is it the public who are only interested in certain aspects and that shapes the media's focus? The Sarah Everard news is certainly horrific and sad regardless.

Events that play out in the light of media are always going to engage the public more than those that are only reported on afterwards. That's something that the media have an influence over (what they choose to report and how) but they can't engineer the timing of events.

Sorry that wasn't mean to sound angry at you, so no need to apologise!

Cases where the victim isn't known to the perpetrator are unusual, so that's one, but there was definitely more going on in this case.

Like you said, there are many missing person cases unfortunately which normally receive no / little media coverage.

Ten women a week commit suicide because of domestic abuse. Such a shameful statistic.

On another note - does Sadiq Khan have the power to remove Cressida Dick over last night’s shambles?