Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

We’re definitely not :)

You want weight further back for off road (relative to road) and some more room to move around.

im talking about weight on the bars, saddle and pedals, not the wheels

I’m afraid one leads to another.

You never agree with anybody though :-D

This is true.

Wait.

Ah OK, now I follow you.

Going back to the OP, this would imply more stack & more reach compared to road

"unavailable in your country"

How Brexity.

TBH, you're lucky you're still allowed to post on here.

More stack for sure. Not more reach generally. A shorter stem and wider bars.

I'm getting frame reach and handlebar reach muddled...

I didn’t help by saying...

‘more room to move around’

... which sort of implies a longer position.

It’s a shorter, wider body position, less head-down.

I like my long and low aero road position but I'd not like to ride that off-road. My gravel bike, even with a lower stack than some road bikes is still higher, the top tube is super long with a tiny 100mm stem and the front is slack, with wider bars. Still decent in the road with the right tires, but much less of a handful than my road bike when things get bumpy.

Yeah the fact that many gravel frames have high reach belies the fact they are to be set up with less stretch to the bars, relative to road bikes... because big tyres.

They’re the opposite of timetrial frames.

Apologies for ruining the thread.

I think the problem is we're moving too fast for this schedule. One argument per month is too restrictive. We need this timetable broken down weekly

Can someone action this before the next argument starts?

Of course with 650b you don’t need that long top tube to maintain a steep head angle...

(runs for cover)

Well, you do know that

This thread is absolutely useless

New thread name. It had to happen.

Ok I updated to include Shit From a Butt:

Bonus Track: Running up that Hill (pushing your bike)

They’re called ‘points of discussion’.

The one glaring omission is ‘GRX report’.

The GRX bit is illegible as it has worn out after one month.

Uncool but probably works

Next

https://passilabicycles.com/products/murska-gravel-and-adventure-frame

Another modern mtbish one with a rather steep seat tube. Long top tube, short stem.

I think the thread is more like a conference with talks in different rooms at the same time, but everything is in the one room here

Hah! along with Mounds of Love

/wait that sounds rude.

A 100 mm stem is tiny?!