Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

Ta. OK on going a bit larger, thanks. Might just order all the sizes and make one fit.

I have bits and Makita if you need.

Ta

Bit of a 53' Mansfield saddle catalogue with specifications (courtesy of VCC library)

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I bet they weren’t very ‘vertically compliant’

VCC. Really need to renew my membership.

I do like those Mansfield saddles, being tempted for my ROH ‘Lyta’ build. I guess they ripped of Ideale? Bit more gritty though :)

This was a good read https://farehamwheelers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Racing-in-the-40s-and-50s.pdf

Pressed in cups, I guess, were case hardened? They’ll be softer underneath.

How deep does the case hardening go?
I think it’s pretty shallow, I can see why pressed in cups need to remain ductile.

Would it not be possible to re-case harden after grinding the races?
I’ve got a Magistroni fork crown race that could do with a bit of love.
🙂

This was the company that did a couple of crown races for me https://www.universalgrinding.co.uk
I had to continually chase for months both times, although to be fair the second time there was some sort of global health pandemic going on. Like I said, I think it was just a small annoying job amongst other stuff. They did a really good job though. As far as I know ‘hard chroming’ (which they offer) would give you a good bearing surface after grinding.

I think given previous comments I needn’t have bothered, but meh, everything else was all fancy thought I might as well have a smooth headset. The indexing dents I guess we’re a 5/10 on the severity scale, and they weren’t deep enough to require hard chroming. Just grinding and decorative chrome.

Interesting article, I think this book on the same subject - Ride and be damned - would be worth a look https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303546196016

I got this years ago.

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Got that book too.
I’ll have another look at it, I remember not being that into it.
Lots of recollections about names and events, I probably just wanted pictures of bikes.
😂

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How deep does the case hardening go?
I think it’s pretty shallow, I can see why pressed in cups need to remain ductile.

Would it not be possible to re-case harden after grinding the races?

Uhhhh, you're crossing over my knowledge bands here now!

I've case hardened and ground thrust bearing races before. You case harden, then grind the surface. I don't know how deep the case hardening goes, but the divots that the ball bearings make are definitely deeper than the case hardening. So, to get a new, perfect surface, you'd need to dress the surface back to remove the divots, then case harden or nitride or whatever was done, then grind again. I don't know how curved surfaces are ground, there's a chance it might be done with something hard like silicon nitride balls and a grinding paste.

Like I said before though, I'd wager you could do similar if you were to pack the races with silicon nitride balls and a fine valve grinding paste, then spin the assembly with a drill. If you just took the worst off, you'd probably turn a rough headset into a perfectly useable one. even regular ball bearings are probably hard enough to do this.

Good knowledge.
I didn’t realise you would harden first then grind, then harden again!
I (think I) know the case hardening process is something to do with the steel being too low in carbon to be hardened so carbon is ‘introduced’ into the surface and then hardened(?).
I have a DT teacher neighbour who loves a technical challenge and is a cyclist (sensible hub gears and ugly bikes) so I might ask him, he often comes up with genius low-tech workarounds, clever chap.

I’ve been looking at 5 speed freewheels.
🤓
What would be easily available that would also look period correct for 1952? I’m not hugely interested in them as components (they don’t excite me) and something that passes (plain teeth, black, no ramps) is probably good enough. Although I have a NOS Renold chain so maybe I should go full PC.
Was there a brand that carried on with a similar design for years? Would mid/low range from 70s be a good option?
I have a TDC on its way that I impulse bought but it needs a stupid 3 prong tool. 🙄 I think it’s 70s.

I think I may be able to help... 😅

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Oooh!
can you pick me out a rusty seized one please?
😝

14-24

Not sure exactly when Cyclo Type B freewheels first hit the scene but that would be good for 1952 and they do come up on Ebay every now and then. Catalogue page is from 1950 Cyclo catalogue in the VCC - yes you really should join :) You won't find a 24, @clubman will tell you that's for wimps anyway.

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You won't find a 24, @clubman will tell you that's for wimps anyway.

Ha.
Yeah or 50 something year old builders/ex fixie mashers with bad knees.

If it’s going to have minimum 46 on the front (probably a 47) I want a 24 on the back.

The Simplex pages in the 1950 Fonteyn catalogue show a Simplex branded freewheel, but I haven't figured out how to tell if they're PC. The freewheels it lists are "Eureka" I don't know if that's the brand or the Simplex model name, it's hard to tell in the older catalogues.

Ones like this come up https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1970s-SIMPLEX-VINTAGE-BICYCLE-FREEWHEEL-BODY/293534527560?hash=item4458057048:g:A3kAAOSwvuxehybJ, I've seen described as 1950s-1970s so who knows, but they look fitting.

Moyne is another option, can be reasonable can be $$ depending on who is selling and they also look great imo https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-Moyne-4-Speed-Freewheel-1940s-50s-for-vintage-531-Campag-Simplex/184699475325
[For a 16-22 spread though kinda think just go for a 16 fixed!]

I've been trying to figure this one out myself if you hadn't noticed. I keep thinking something like a Suntour Perfect would be the best option and screw the PC.

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I’m pretty sure that’s the Cyclo I have in a 4 vit, but I’ve decided to use the 5vit Simplex 51.

I'm going for 44/50 on the front I think, got a 44 and 45 inner ring for a TA double adapter. Personally I'd like a 26 if possible :D Which is the biggest the TdF is supposed to take, but clubman has already advised that will be a stretch. So think it'll be 14/24 if I can find it, think I've got a Type B 14/22 stashed somewhere.

To get the rear sprockets I want I was thinking of building my own with a Regina body - that's your option that hasn't change significantly has lots of availability. The "regina gran sport corse" engraved ones are PC or pretty close afaik. I guess the Extra sprockets will fit but that's a guess.

For reference - My 51' Gillott has a
Regina Gran Sport Corse 5 speed and 49t & 46t.