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On the secretary thing, all I'm doing here is mimicking the tiresome requests for 'proof' whenever this conversation comes up with left wing people.
And I provided that proof.
I don't read that as saying that the entire left is antisemitic so no I would still say that noone is saying that the entire left is antisemitic.
He said it. I quoted it. Who's gaslighting who now? If there is a misunderstanding of his meaning (which he's claiming there is), fine. But multiple people read it the same way I did.
The way I see it, the only people currently conflating antisemitism and 'all socialists are somehow inherently antisemitic' are portions of the left of the party who cannot accept that the old regime was run by people who were racist towards jews and therefore being censured because of it.
Are you saying that if you can't see that the "old regime" (whatever that means) was antisemitic you are therefore an antisemite? Because if so, we're back to the claim that left is antisemitic.
This isn't 'banging on about antisemitism, it's just ensuring that the narrative of 'centrist kieth hates the left and good socialist Jeremy because he's a tory' isn't seen as the only reason why the previous regime have been sidelined.
Now it's you're turn to show me where someone's said something. On the whole people have been really open to Starmer, if disappointed. As I read it (and I could be wrong), it's the constant "but he's better than Corbyn!" that's causing arguments. It's pointless and unhelpful.
It's impossible to have real discussions on this thread. We've talked about this so many times, Ben, but the internet turns people into idiots (myself included, obvs).
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Are you saying that if you can't see that the "old regime" (whatever that means) was antisemitic you are therefore an antisemite? Because if so, we're back to the claim that left is antisemitic.
Quite clearly I'm not saying that. There's a difference between saying that the party leadership is inherently racist (what bleakrefs was inferring when he said the left) and 'all leftwingers are racist' (a inference that is clearly not meant as literally as that in the sentence that u quoted, if it was it would be completely ridiculous) I understand why there is this hysteria on the left of the party and I (and I think bleakrefs) am saying that it doesn't bear any relationship to the reality of things. Look at the substance of his speech today. As many people on here have said it is promising and actually quite left wing. So far not antisemitic. Let's hope that the rumblings of racism against BAME people in the party are properly dealt with and that the current regime deal with it clearly,effectively and transparently.
The 'old regime' is the leadership of corbyn.
punkture
On the secretary thing, all I'm doing here is mimicking the tiresome requests for 'proof' whenever this conversation comes up with left wing people.
I don't read that as saying that the entire left is antisemitic so no I would still say that noone is saying that the entire left is antisemitic. If you take it completely out of the context of the discussion then maybe. So where is it being said in this thread?
This is all being mentioned in the context of Starmer being ruthless against the left wing of the party as it is currently hysterically perceived by that wing.
The argument is that Starmers main public actions against the leftwing of the party, sidelining RBL (because of her unapologetic antisemitic statements) and kicking corbyn out of the party (because of his unapologetic minimising of racism in the party) has got nothing to do with their socialism and everything to do with their racism. That statement is clearly referring to this and he illustrates that with the RBL and Corbyn points.
The way I see it, the only people currently conflating antisemitism and 'all socialists are somehow inherently antisemitic' are portions of the left of the party who cannot accept that the old regime was run by people who were racist towards jews and therefore being censured because of it.
This isn't 'banging on about antisemitism, it's just ensuring that the narrative of 'centrist kieth hates the left and good socialist Jeremy because he's a tory' isn't seen as the only reason why the previous regime have been sidelined.