That Starmer fella...

I can see that point of view, sure. I do think that Biden couldn't have won if he wasn't also appealing to the centre, though, which I think is all people are saying Starmer has to do.

Obviously the question of how to do that without alienating other voters is a tough one, though...

It's not easy and Starmer hasn't cracked it.

Is he trying to appeal to the centre? His 10 pledges were quite left:

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

That's what he said to get elected. But does he still stand by them? I don't know. He's not been very good at making it clear what he does stand for.

Starmer's Labour not going over too well with the voters so far.

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1360262882466942983?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1360262882466942983%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rllmukforum.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSurvation%2Fstatus%2F1360262882466942983%3Fs%3D19

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1359832577461338116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1359832577461338116%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rllmukforum.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FYouGov%2Fstatus%2F1359832577461338116%3Fs%3D19

Starmer again fumbling with racism after his black lives 'moment', triangulated comments about the Colston statue and Boris beating him to offering sympathy to Dawn Butler.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/12/forde-inquiry-delay-suggests-labour-not-serious-on-racism-black-mps-say

I don't really buy much of that ^^^. Even in the worst poll you can find we're still doing significantly better than we did in 2019. Starmer's approval rating at his worst is better than Corbyn's at his best.

seen as a kindly grandfather figure

wonder how much was less than critical carryover from his time as Barry's VP

Corbyn was roughly neck-and-neck with the Tories until all the Brexit shenanigans happened in 2019.

It's the genesis of the "twenty points ahead" meme, because Corbyn merely being equal wasn't good enough.

That's true but the point I was responding to was that Starmer himself wasn't going over too well with the voters so far, when his personal approval ratings at their worst are better than Corbyn's at his best.

I didn't vote for Starmer and remain convinced that he is not the right person to lead the Labour Party into the next General Election.

I must say, however, that I am fascinated how obsessed the far right press are with him. The Times is really going overboard in their attacks on him. Why?

The Times is really going overboard in their attacks on him. Why?

I think they perceive him as sufficiently right of "traditional labour" that he'll appeal broadly to voters.

Labour has such a crisis of leadership. Kier is really the most mediocre of a bad bunch.

I don't really buy much of that ^^^. Even in the worst poll you can find we're still doing significantly better than we did in 2019. Starmer's approval rating at his worst is better than Corbyn's at his best.

In 2019, Corbyn had a very hostile press, a party that was briefing against him, a Brexit balancing act to contend with, and anti-semitism accusations.

Starmer has none of those, and has an open goal of the Tories handling of Covid-19 causing 117k deaths. So, quite frankly, I would expect Starmer to be doing a lot better than 2019. That he's not perhaps indicates this is the wrong direction for the Labour party

you might be right, but what would the most capable opposition leader imaginable have done differently over the past 12 months?

Have policies rather than just be in a reaction mode.

Attack more/harder at the PMQs; i know they have been Starmers strong points but still.

Less flag hugging.

Who can name a key starmer policy?

People joked about the broadband policy corbyn had; would have been a boon for home schooling in pandemic.

Starmer has managed the party much better, which is how we've managed to go from 20 points behind to parity in less than a year. That sounds like the right direction to me.

Announcing policies in the middle of a pandemic which changes on a weekly basis strikes me as being a profoundly stupid thing to do.

I think now's teh right time for Starmer to start articulating values, and how those values might translate into areas of concern. But laying out policies? He'd have to be nuts.

He doesn't have MPs like Wes streeting and Jess Phillips constantly saying in any paper that will listen that he's shit, so I guess that's better management?

Fair point.

The same pandemic and the tories handling of it has handed him the poll lead; so he hasn’t done anything to really earn that.

Values; why wont he then pivot patriotism to be less about flag hugging and more about taking care of each other and the greater good etc. At least thats a ‘fresher’ approach.

And he shouldnt be driving an SUV in Kentish Town 😂

would you vote for him tomorrow amey?

Dunno

you would. you clearly want to.

The opposition never wins support - the government loses it and with luck the opposition, and its leader, looks like a party, and a leader, pissed off voters can go to. That's what Corbyn lost over Brexit and the rest of it. There's a long time for the aftermath of Covid and Brexit to affect how people see the Tories and Labour.

This idea that Labour will somehow end up winning by default is ridiculous, at least in the era of SNP dominance in Scotland. An election result will not simply fall into Labour's hands through voters becoming dissatisfied with the Tories.