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I do understand the difference between gaming a system and deliberately defrauding it and guess what - yes they are the same to me in that I would find doing either unconscionable during a global pandemic.
I’m not keen on getting involved, but I did want to say that I think this statement is a bit unfair (for lack of a better word). My understanding of Lynx’s reasoning for his vaccine suggestion is that there are doses potentially going to waste because of various reasons but mainly administrative ones that need sorting out. Your centre has found uses for the surplus, but he found a centre that was content to apply the vaccine to a walk-in. Is it more morally questionable to allow a life-saving medicine to be lost, or to try and find a use for it even on one’s self? He’s not exactly cutting the queue, and his reasoning was sound enough that the centre staff agreed with it.
I’m not saying one moral choice is preferable to the other, I’m just saying that there’s a valid argument to be made for both, and his reasoning isn’t necessarily stupid or fraudulent. His suggestion may be misguided in that we should all be locked down, but it’s in response to an actual moral and administrative insufficiency.
Do the centres have a list of less-at-risk people who are 100% committed to dropping whatever they’re doing at 4pm and going to get vaccinated from the surplus doses? It’s a job for the GPs, but perhaps that’s a way to minimise spoilage.
Adding: I wouldn’t recommend following Lynx’ suggestion, please register your interest with your GP instead.
Eseman-
It's not even leftovers in some places. This sounds a lot worse:
Frustrated medics say they are beginning to run out of patients in the government’s top four priority cohorts to vaccinate and fear that lives will be lost unless they are allowed to immunise more people immediately.
Doctors at the Francis Crick Institute in London say they are providing first doses at a rate of 100 a day when they have capacity for 1,000. -
I can only speak from my experience of this but, at the hub we are supporting, there is surplus at the end of most days, which is offered to the volunteers who keep the place running.
Whilst it sounds sensible, in theory to make that available to others rather than chucking it, I think it would be problematic. An influx at 4pm would place unfair pressure on staff and volunteers trying to maintain a COVID secure environment. Unless you did it on a nod and a wink there would be a high risk of large numbers travelling across London and crowds at the hub. How would we allocate the surplus, assuming numbers turning up on spec exceeded the available doses, which they probably would? What about people turning up without the required information so that the vaccine can be recorded and GP records updated? It would potentially be a nightmare free for all and place staff and volunteers in an unenviable position. Without them, you can’t run the hub.
Things could certainly be improved, although a lot of recent problems have been down to older people struggling to get out in the cold weather - lots of stories, whether true or not, of having to stand and wait outside e.g. at Lords. But people turning up on the off chance - and I know this isn’t what you’re suggesting- isn’t the answer.
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Do the centres have a list of less-at-risk people who are 100% committed to dropping whatever they’re doing at 4pm and going to get vaccinated from the surplus doses?
Someone I know works at one and they're giving spare doses to police. They drive over to get the vaccine with the blue lights on
sohi
Markyboy
frankenbike
Your post may have been aimed at someone in particular, but everyone could read it.
If you're going to suggest stupid things that everyone can read, then quite rightly you will get called out on it. It's not like it's a one off, I seem to remember you recently thinking out loud about whether you could 'nip' off to France then return without self-isolating, when travel to France is illegal and you are legally obliged to quarantine, but also it's fucking obvious that there's a moral imperative there too.
I do understand the difference between gaming a system and deliberately defrauding it and guess what - yes they are the same to me in that I would find doing either unconscionable during a global pandemic.
On our vaccination centre: no, we don't use up all of the allotted vaccine and we don't have 100% attendance. You wouldn't get either of these at any vaccination centre in the country, but ours is in the most deprived area of London, which has a 69% minority ethnic population.
You may have heard in the news that uptake is worrying low among these groups, which is ironic because they are most at risk of being hospitalised or dying from Covid. So our priority is vaccinating these at risk groups. Like everyone else running vaccination centres, we haven't been given a proper plan for how to use up the leftover vaccine by the Government/NHS, but we're doing our best.
Either way, having a bunch of worried well turning up to try and game the system would be deeply unhelpful and it's not going to work either as so far if we can't find people from the appropriate groups in the local community they have gone to our staff, many of whom are essential/key workers.