EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

The Tories could choose to align with the EU on SPS issues and a lot of the current friction would vanish - but that would likely prevent the US deal that they so desperately want.

Watch as they blame the EU for violence in NI whilst holding out for a Trump era trade deal that left with his administration.

Our so-called politicians are not blameless in this.

True, the DUP are very much complicit in the mess that they’ve got NI into, but then to them the goal was a hard border with ROI and they saw their chance and went for it. It’s not (yet) worked, but the current situation is quite possibly existential for them as it becomes ever more apparent that a) Westminster gives zero shits about NI remaining part of the UK and b) the effects of being in effect a quasi-EU member state aligns NI ever closer with ROI.

The effects were wholly predictable. The so-called politicians didn’t care at the time. Reaping the rewards now could lead to a dangerous place. Hard border is ridiculously unlikely from our side but it might happen from the south which would prove interesting albeit there is less of a threat there.

I think the risk is that it happens by accident - possibly aided by Gove being a sincere opponent of the GFA.

Oh I get that. Though some people over the water did vote remain partially because of NI.

It's also bit frustrating the unionists are still sticking their head in the sand. The guy saying "NI is not a back route into the single market and it's ridiculous I need to register for VAT for my book shop hmmm. Well. Ask people at the border.."

But here we are: Brexit runs mostly among identity lines in NI.

We need solutions either way. I don't see the Irish sea border go, but less hassle the better.

Arlene foster isn't helping either ATM.

SF says nothing. Convenient for them.

Sdlp alliance uup try to come up with workable solutions at least.

The socialist parties are anti EU pro Brexit so very quiet ATM

Direct EU / NI / UK Ireland bodies engagement avoiding Gove would be fabulous but probably not possible ATM.

By accident or by design, should the brown stuff hit the spinny bladed thing, the so-called politicians will all deny their part - again, not unusual. The county suffers and divisions increase - the bigger the divides, the longer it takes to reduce them. I’ve had 53 years of this crap and change is so slow; any setbacks take years for recovery. Currently the PSNI are under fire (metaphorically - so far this week) from both sides because of action/inaction at Covid events - funerals etc.
I’d be interested is anyone who isn’t from here is aware of a terrorist attack on a civilian helicopter a few weeks ago. Long arms fire directed at it - terrorists thought it was a PSNI helo. If you aren’t aware of this incident, it proves my point about when news is reported outside of Norn Iron.

If you don’t get it, how can you dismiss the situation as petty and pathetic?

I hadn’t heard about that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56026320

Ireland being grown up in the room, luckily.

I think the risk is that it happens by accident - possibly aided by Gove being a sincere opponent of the GFA.

You're on pretty thin ice in assuming that Gove is sincere about something.

You realise that no one cares about the violence except those who live here. Sad but true.

Obviously not true, but it's certainly true that fewer people elsewhere care who should.

He did talk about sending soldiers to NI re brexit land border and was against gfa. Great..!

I don't trust him. But you are correct he will go for personal gain over principles.

My opinion is that it’s true. I’ve lived through it all so far and the fact that we only make the news when the atrocities are very severe evidences my point. Someone gets killed here due to terrorism doesn’t make the news outside of here. Kneecapping is a regular occurrence (people getting shot in the knees, ankles or the six pack - knees, ankles and elbows) that does not make the news outside of here - and I am talking about this week, last week not 20 years ago. No one outside of here has any interest in the brutality of this place. A friend of mine was shot dead a couple of years ago, police didn’t catch anyone - this week the police are taking an interest in the area it happened as shooting have got beyond a joke there. That made the news here and it’s not in Belfast or Londonderry - it’s a country area.
I totally understand why it doesn’t make the news outside of here - people on the mainland are bored with it and have been since 1968. Just an observation but it’s accurate.

The article mentioned above

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56029630

No one outside of here has any interest in the brutality of this place.

Well, I'm a counter-example, and there are many others. I've been following it, sometimes very closely, since about 1990 and have many Irish/Northern Irish friends with whom I talk about it (too little during the pandemic, admittedly). Sure, many incidents like the ones you mention don't make the news in the UK, but it's definitely generally the case with murders, crashes, and other horrible events that very few become famous cases that are reported non-locally. I mean, where one cause of murders over in NI is sectarianism, in London it can be postcode wars or drug wars, and you don't even hear about all of those murders if you live in London, unless you pay special attention.

I don't think it's just a problem with people being 'bored' with it. It's also a problem with the idea of 'newsworthiness' generally--that journalists want to tell a story, and if it's the same bloody story again on which there's no original angle, papers probably won't take it. It definitely contributes to important issues being forgotten. I think journalism should function differently, i.e. not push some issues massively and over-report on them, blotting out most other things, but there's only so much attention for so many things.

Also in addition to those points, I think there is certainly still an active interest on the part of some sections of the UK media in not reporting on all of it, for various reasons.

Counterpoint- and I wish I didn’t think this - the vast majority of GB voters are only very, very vaguely aware that NI is part of the UK and empathetically don’t care that it is. Mainland bombing campaigns would change that, I suspect that significant escalation in NI violence won’t.

Your counterpoint was proved correct in the 70s and 80s and raised the profile of the situation here but only momentarily. There is still the odd mention of those atrocities - one quite recently about the Birmingham bombs if memory serves me right (dubious at times).

Are you aware of a crash here yesterday where a young couple died (21 and 25) and left three children without parents?

I appreciate that you take a personal interest but the media don’t.

In fairness, your example is a regional news issue. Car crashes aren’t always reported in national news sections? Take RTÉ and their inconsistent criteria for reporting similar. As with all journalism, there are priorities to be reported in a limited time. I still think you’re correct re the stories relating to violence though.

I wasn't before you pointed it out, no. As Murakami says, horrible though it is, this is probably not a story that will make it beyond regional news. I follow Irish/NI news more generally and don't particularly make a point of following crashes outside of London (although I'm often interested in crashes in other larger cities), and crashes in NI I only really see when someone starts a thread about them in 'Rider Down'. How crashes happen is really the same everywhere, sadly, and Irish news interests me more for what is specific to them.

Possibly I misread your original post. I took it that you thought bad accidents would make the news there - obviously not.
I’m now busy crying over Ireland’s defeat to those pesky EU Frenchies 😁

I presume the threats to the Irish Sea border staff have made the news on the mainland?

The threats that the workers’ unions later claimed were made up? We heard those news.