Should HS2 carry adjacent cycle track?

Gov too busy fucking up Brexit to notice something so small as a useful bike path.

Healthcare and police too more importantly.
David Cameron basically decimated the country through austerity and a referendum.

In all honestly would any UK government of the last 50 years realised this was a good investment? Improving transport links in this country is seen as roads, or the occasional rail improvement. Cycling isn't seen by our politicians or theirs constituents as a viable way of getting about more easily, let's hope that changes.

They've disbanded the lOndon cycle task force too, which from afar looked like it was doing some good work and starting to tackle the crime at a decent level.

Old Oak Common station design revealed

Well, I think HS2 is a nonsense and welcome the findings of this report, although it's obviously commissioned by FoE and so it's not totally surprising that the conclusions tally with its policy stance:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/19/axe-hs2-north-midlands-london-new-economics-foundation

Cue an update from LFGSS's HS2 correspondent.
After Euston, which area is most disturbed by HS2 activities, on the London-to-Birmingham stretch?
Step forward ....... Ruislip!
Specifically the municipally owned Ruislip Golf Course which will house the portal of the West London tunnel of HS2. Supine (Tory) Council did a(n unspecified) deal with HS2 on the day an appeal was being held by the House of Lords, with the intention of having the tunnel extended, beyond the M25.
CS jv, (Costain Skanska jv the 'Enabling Works' contractor), have destroyed +/-100 mature oaks, alders, sycamores and ash trees, clearing a compound adjacent to the Chiltern Line embankment, and despite attempting to have an 'upcycling' dialogue for 5 months,
with both members of the local HS2 Community Enagagement team, and the ecologists employed by CS jv, not a single kilo of branches were chipped sufficiently small for use reinforcing local (muddy) footpaths, not were any of the trunks planked for use as footbridges or boardwalks.

L0cally the only part of pre-HS2 tunnelling that remains on schedule is the Cadent work site re-positioning the 'new' gas pipeline in Harefield. CS jv are running at least 9 months behind schedule. Local rumours persist that CS jv have been told to do as much as they can, as quickly as they can, to push the project beyond the point of no return.
Also, we hear reports that once TMay is gone, any pro-Brexit Tory leader, with their broad
'Fuck the North' economic outlook will put HS2 on hold, leading to an eventual cancellation, as a No Deal UK economy will not have the funds for such projects.
A dreadful dilemma; the prospect of a Leadsom, 'As a Mother' government in exchange for HS2 cancellation.

Rumours swirling of David Lidington as interim PM,
once the current idiocracy of a cabinet summons up enough courage to shaft TMay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lidington
A pre-MP career working for exploitative industries doesn't bode well for the fracking-averse,
and,
he was MIA on an HS2 vote.

Anyone care to sign Chris Packham's latest petition to review HS2?

As posted by @dubtap in the news thread:

The HS2 protesters out the front of Euston Station have dug a fucking tunnel under the camp, and Swampy is helping out

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-englan­d-london-55796445

https://www.lfgss.com/comments/15778412/

Out here in the 'wilds' of Ruislip HS2 and their contractor SCS
cannot even keep a statutory footpath open.

Out here in the 'wilds' of Ruislip HS2 and their contractor SCS do not even want to keep a statutory footpath open.

Fixed to what I assume is the case.

Hmm, taken before the snow, so Footpath U45 will be even more of a gamboge.

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Moving away again from the Centre of All Things to Central London, things are heating up now:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/27/hs2-protesters-dig-100ft-tunnel-under-london-park-at-risk-from-rail-project

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hs2-rebellion-euston-square-gardens-protest-tunnel-b901275.html

A genuine question I have; I assume the protest against it is to do with two things; the environmental impact and the london-centric spending.

On the environmental impact; if not trains people will and do drive, isnt that worse?

Yes; AIUI from the rail industry people I know, the benefit is not so much in the high speed of the HS2 bit as in the extra capacity on the rest of the network because you're not mixing fast and slow trains.

Obviously the loss of ancient woodlands, habitats etc. is a bad thing, but the alternative isn't 'do nothing', it's even more road building. Given the marginal extra costs, the lack of a cycle track is bullshit though.

I was given to understand that the greatest benefit is for freight - which I think is maybe off the back of this mixing fast and slow traffic. Less lorries is a very good thing

I could just about understand people protesting against HS2 if they don't like the impact on ancient woodland.

But why don't they protest a tenth as much against road schemes?

The Green Party in particular is terrible on this:
'HS2 - no way: new dual carriageways all across the country - sure, no problem!'

Yes. I used to be opposed to HS2 on the grounds that it was about sucking economic benefits to London. Then I read an article by a guy who explained how rail lines worked, and that HS2 would enable loads and loads of local services up and down the country by taking the fast trains off the existing lines, then slow local passenger and freight trains could chug along at their own speed with no gaps in service.

I think they have not communicated the objectives of HS2 very well, focusing on getting from London to Birmingham 3 minutes quicker (or whatever) isn't going to enthuse people, but decent local services might.

I also wonder this often. Roads and private vehicles have a HUGE impact.

On the environmental impact; if not trains people will and do drive, isnt that worse?

Yes, these people don't seem to be able to see the bigger picture.

The loss of ancient woodlands and habitats does pain me but the alternative is worse.

A lot of the campaigners against HS2 are nimbies who don't want it near them (not so much the tunnellers I'd presume).

The Green Party in particular is terrible on this:
'HS2 - no way: new dual carriageways all across the country - sure, no problem!'

Is this true? I'd always presumed they were against new roads?

Is this true? I'd always presumed they were against new roads?

On paper yes. In practice they're awfully quiet about them.

My uninformed unfair stereotype of Green Party members is comfortable middle class types from the shires who drive everywhere, thus HS2 is an easy target and roads they might end up using aren't.

I think they have not communicated the objectives of HS2 very well, focusing on getting from London to Birmingham 3 minutes quicker (or whatever) isn't going to enthuse people, but decent local services might.

I completely agree - it seems madness how little the other benefits are talked about. Midlands rail say they’re looking to take 2.5m lorries worth of cargo each year. Dunno what janky maths that is based on but it seems like a good retort to the question ‘why are you spending billions to cut 10min off the journey from Birmingham to London’. I’m reminded of battersea power station redevelopment saying their use of barges was equivalent to about 100 lorries each day.

Surely they could estimate how many more local services could be running in each area and plaster that all over the place.

Exactly. This is all that numbskull Lord Adonis’ (and others) fault back when HS2 was in its early stages.

Everyone who knows anything about rail knew it was always about capacity, but the Lab govt at the time felt like they had to sell it as a bells and whistles super speed upgrade. Unfortunately those soundbites then stuck.

And all this uppityness about it being focused on London is ludicrous. If you have capacity constraints you build bypasses on the most congested bit in order to enable better journeys all round. Hence why the first complete motorway was the M1 because the A5 / A41 routes to the west mids were the worst for congestion. It’s the same with rail: the WCML cannot ever hope to cope into the future as both a freight, intercity, and local rail route. HS2 not only bypasses this, but two (arguably three) other main line railways into the bargain!

Every time I see or hear of another idiot hs2 protestor banging on about “20mins time saving” “London centric” or “sort out local lines” blah blah I curse the PR people behind HS2 back in 2008/9- and then forgive the protesters (but only slightly mind you) cos they are still focusing on the false PR of HS2 from years back.