Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

29cm of extra spokes probably weigh more than 70g. I'm guessing here

This is very obviously wrong, and a lesson in thinking about the magnitude of a numerical claim before accepting it. 700C wheel spokes are usually in the 28cm range of lengths, clearly one spoke doesn't weigh 70g

of course you're obviously right.. .my brain is fried after 9 days of self isolating... one more to go ....

The lack of a shoulder on the axle of miche hubs does not bother me as its simple to not over preload. Corrosion is a different matter, the axle and cones would be better made from stainless steel but this adds to the cost.

Zenith hubs have corrosion resistant parts. I prefer these over the novatec hubs as they are available trade in all drillings. There is no good source for novatec track hubs in the u.k. Although in novatecs defence there track hub is the best hub they do.

I should be offering my own hubs soon made in suffolk too. Stainless axles, polished finish, cera coat big bearings (6001 NTN) large flange...

Rr421 is the shallower version on the rr521. Both are welded. The r470 is sleeve joined. Its still a decent rim but the kinlin xr22rts is lighter and even better for it bead hook, bead lock....

I believe you're referring to the 18mm 460.
@ObiWomKenobi
From where I stand (I wasn't aware of 421/470/521 until now), said rims are simply 20mm versions of the 18mm 411/460/511.
470/521 are the only 20mm symmetric disc road rims DT does.
For what it's worth, 460/470 is a common rim for OTP Spez, Spez dealer I'm friendly with (gasp) haven't had any trouble with them to report of.

Yes its 20mm wide (r470) forgot about that. Its like a shallower velocity aileron.

@ObiWomKenobi I recently picked up a DT swiss hub for a friend, it is not laced yet but they seem pretty solid and the mirror finish looks fantastic

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Shame it’s got a cog stuck on it though, hope you can lace it ok..

no worries, it is just hand-tight screwed

As for Miche hubs the lack of the shoulder on the axle is bonus in one respect. put shoulders on the axle means you are pressing a bearing in over the axle and the interfeerence fit is them on the axle. it require much tighter tollerance to work properly and on a double sided hub it adds an obvious complication, reassembly has to done correctly otherwise do it backward and you have mis matching tollerances. nothing wrong with Miche design it is quite reliable. If your prone to cocking up bearing preload dont do it your self.

the interfeerence fit is them on the axle

Nope, the inner race is a slip fit on the Novatec axle. If there's an assembly "issue", it's that you have to press on both inner and outer races simultaneously with a reasonably flat tool, as the outer race is pressed into the hub shell but the axial stop is where the inner race hits the shoulder.
The minor advantage which would accrue to the Miche design if it was implemented well is that it allows the bearings to be preloaded, just like traditional loose-ball angular contact ("cup and cone") bearings. In the Novatec design (shared with most other modern hubs, BTW), the bearing clearance is determined by the manufactured clearance of the cartridges.

Well i must have mis remembered what this hub looks like then or got it confused with with something else. I see what your describing and its not a bad way of doing it at all. All you need is over axle drifts. There is still the problem of where to buy them from. There is no good trade source. Whiskers has the fixed variety in 32H but other drillings are elusive.

There is still the problem of where to buy them from. There is no good trade source

I guess you have to deal direct with Joy Industrial Co.Ltd. 🙂

Mack Hubs - Can I assume now that buying from them direct from Poland means I'd be hit with import fees?

Does anyone know if they have a UK distributor?

Yes import vat will be due but for an order under £150 mack will have to bill you the vat and register with hmrc and file a vat return. I doudt he will do that. Mack hub range is to wide and lead times to long to warrant importing. Thought about it and the margins are not enough to kustify the expense. Shame really.

So are you saying they'll just stop shipping to the UK? That is a real shame.

you'll have to ask mack but come july 1st its going to become hassle for me to ship to the EU. I will have to register for VAT in an EU country appoint a intermediary and pay VAT at the destination states rate through the import one stop shop portal. That what Mack will have to do here. many EU copanies are not shipping to the u.k because of this hurdle. I suspect many u,k comanies (not me though) woill stop shipping to the EU. Right balls up.

So are you saying they'll just stop shipping to the UK?

Just went to Mack, put a hub in the basket and it automatically calculated UK shipping. There is no need for Mack to register with HMRC, they just send stuff to UK customers the same way as usual. What's new is that they will have to put a customs declaration on the package and HMRC will charge import VAT before releasing the consignment. In most cases, the shipping company will deal with this in exchange for an exorbitant handling charge. It's exactly the same as would happen when you buy from the US, China or anywhere else.

Thanks both. What a mess

So it looks like I'm back on the hunt for a low flange fixed hub in black, 24h, 120 spacing. Seems hard to find, or am I not looking hard enough?

That what Mack will have to do here

If they want shipments pre-cleared to avoid the customer annoyance described above, and the Polish VAT on foreign sales. I don't suppose they will bother, as you say the administration is more trouble than it's worth for a small business.

low flange fixed hub in black, 24h, 120 spacing

OK, it's 110 not 120, but at least that means you don't need negative shims 🙂

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That's a disc brake front hub, no? Confused

That's a disc brake front hub, no?

It is until you turn it into a fixed rear https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/246229/

For sales below 135 pounds it is mandatory for sellers to register with hmrc. Above 135 pound then normal import vat applies.

If they don't vat then i dont know what happens. Punitive vat may get applied. Also stuff will be held up at customs while it all checked. Paying the vat or using a duties paid service will expedite the parcel through customs.

Polish vat should not be charged.

Vat fraud is being clamped down on. 

Its all here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021